Message:

<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Insider, post: 2765273, member: 24314&quot;]<span style="color: #000000">PART #2 </span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"><br /></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000">Part#1 is posted below as <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie15" alt=":arghh:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> somehow a large part of this post was deleted.&nbsp; I&#039;ll need to add it again. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie23" alt=":bigtears:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie23" alt=":bigtears:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie23" alt=":bigtears:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> </span></p><p><span style="color: #000000"><br /></span></p><p><span style="color: #0000b3">eddiespin</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)">, asked:&nbsp; &quot;Why then did they pick the CC with the die gouge when there were others they could have &quot;patterned&quot; off of that could have tricked us? Why did they pick the one with the red flag? It&#039;s not like that was their only choice. These were professionals, remember. That&#039;s their </span>profile,<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 179)"> if this is a counterfeit.&quot; </span></p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #000000">These crooks are master fabricators.&nbsp; They are not numismatists.&nbsp; In the 1970&#039;s, an instructor told his authentication class that if he and his boss went over to Lebanon, they could help make fake gold that would be undetected in the U.S. by eliminating all the defects found on the fakes!&nbsp; True story.&nbsp; </span></p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #0000b3">justafarmer, posted: &quot;This coin was classified as counterfeit because it exhibited an undocumented die gouge?&quot;</span></p><p><br /></p><p><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie12" alt="o_O" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> There is no easy way to say this.&nbsp; The coin is a counterfeit because it was not made by the US Mint.&nbsp; The die gouge is a &quot;cute&quot; way of developing a story about how it was detected and why.&quot;</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #0000b3">&quot;Are we to assume that all 1884-S Morgan die pairings and die states have been discovered, mapped and cataloged?&quot;</span></p><p><br /></p><p>YES! <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie26" alt=":bookworm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />&nbsp; At least somewhere but probably at all the major TPGS also.</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #0000b3">&quot;Surely the coin was rejected as genuine due to other undisclosed facts and reporting of the die gouge was for the purpose of informing the public of the counterfeit and its characteristics.&quot; </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000b3"><br /></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000">Yes, Very true.</span></p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #0000b3">justafarmer, posted:&nbsp; &quot;All I am suggesting is NGC may have had prior knowledge the coin was counterfeit before examining it. Which would allow them to examine this coin for a different purpose and from a different perspective.&quot;&nbsp; </span></p><p><br /></p><p>IMO, this is the kind of conjecture that muddies a thread.&nbsp; No one should care about the &quot;what-ifs.&quot;&nbsp; What if a CC die was sent to SF?&nbsp; What if the coin is actually authentic?&nbsp; What if this thread would have ended at post #22 and I would be doing other things?&nbsp;&nbsp; <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie57" alt=":jawdrop:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie8" alt=":D" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #0000b3">Conder101, posted: &quot;Yes they are professionals, professional counterfeiters not numismatists.&nbsp; All they knew was they wanted an 1884 dated silver dollar to use for the pattern to create the obv die and they selected an 1884 CC dollar for the &quot;model&quot;.&nbsp; They aren&#039;t VAMmers so they didn&#039;t realize the die gouge would flag it.&nbsp; To them one 1884 dated coin was as good as any other.&quot;&nbsp; </span></p><p><span style="color: #0000b3"><br /></span></p><p><span style="color: #000000">Very well said!</span></p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #0000b3">eddiespin, post: &quot;Throw it off on the individuals who had the resources, the knowledge, and the skill to counterfeit this coin were ignorant in their choice of the die. How believable is that?&quot;</span></p><p><br /></p><p>That&#039;s what happened.&nbsp; The coin is the proof.&nbsp; One OTHER THING is sure.&nbsp; The maker will be more careful next time. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie85" alt=":smuggrin:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #0000b3">eddiespin, posted: &quot;How exactly are you surmising they did this? Are you saying they stole the die <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie46" alt=":facepalm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />, or that they somehow recreated it from a coin? <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie50" alt=":happy:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> Or it&#039;s an altered mint mark<img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie46" alt=":facepalm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />? Now that I look closer at it, the S does look somewhat cockeyed.<img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie46" alt=":facepalm:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />&quot;</span></p><p><br /></p><p><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie92" alt=":stop:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />&nbsp; Please <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie92" alt=":stop:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />!</p><p><br /></p><p><span style="color: #0000b3">justafarmer, posted:&nbsp; &quot;All the more reason I lean towards NGC having prior knowledge the coin was fake before examining it.&quot;</span></p><p><br /></p><p><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie52" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /><img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie92" alt=":stop:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />&nbsp; Ditto![/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

Your name or email address:

Do you already have an account?

• No, create an account now.
• Yes, my password is:
• Forgot your password?

Stay logged in