1883 Morgan... pmd on strikethrough?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Cascade, Sep 30, 2016.

  1. Cascade

    Cascade CAC Variety Nerd

    What do you guys think. Bag hit on top of strikethrough / lamination or bag hit with periphery smoothed down from circulation

    Discuss :)

    20160930_085231.jpg 20160930_085335.jpg 20160930_085258.jpg
     
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  3. Garlicus

    Garlicus Debt is dumb, cash is king.

    Strange. Looks like the denticles from another coin, and before this one was struck.
    The hit on the ribbon almost looks PMD, but it does show the shape of a denticle.
     
  4. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    It's the dastardly act of someone with a deep-seated, patholigical hate of mint marks.

    Or a strikethrough. :p
     
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  5. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    This I should send in to TPGS. It has a "wild" chance of being a strike thru caused when a piece of the edge of a previously struck coin broke off and was struck into the next coin. Only indication of this is the smooth oval depression around the outside of the reed mark. Don't get your hopes up though because this is just a "wild" possibility to explain what is visible in the photo.
     
  6. Cascade

    Cascade CAC Variety Nerd

    Yeah I thought about that too insider like a detached lamination from a previous coin landing on this planchet before the strike then flaking off. Its a strange one for sure as the "hit" doesn't quite look like a hit. The denticle impressions are too perfect almost like a vice job but it's that indent in the bow and the bow fully forming that speaks against the struckthrough lamination theory. Plus the strikethrough like depression. Stuff just isn't adding up in my mind. Thats why I posted it with limited info in the op as to not skewer responses. Strange indeed
     
  7. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    I'm on my phone and not willing to draw firm conclusions from this small screen, but if we're willing to acknowledge denticle clashes on Morgans - we are - then it stands to reason a denticle fragment strikethrough is feasible.
     
  8. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    It looks like a strikethrough to me.

    Chris
     
  9. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

    One may never know for sure as this is a strange hit. But looks like a strike through to me. Neat find.
     
    Seattlite86 likes this.
  10. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Not true...send to NGC as this one may be worth the cost! Or send to potter at Collectors Clearinghouse (free?) and he may write about it in his column which should increase its value if strike thru (with design showing).
     
  11. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Motor City Car Capital

  12. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Well-Known Member

    Good call Rick.....
     
    Rick Stachowski likes this.
  13. Cascade

    Cascade CAC Variety Nerd

    I suppose that's a possibility. I didn't even think of that because the few I've seen before were all letters
     
    Rick Stachowski likes this.
  14. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    What do you mean possibility...You already "called it." If indeed that is what it is and there is a good chance it is.

    All @Rick Stachowski did was give it the name commonly used for this characteristic.
     
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  15. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Motor City Car Capital

    Just call me " Mike Diamond " .. Lol ....
     
  16. Cascade

    Cascade CAC Variety Nerd

    A dropped element refers primairily to a compacted grease/debris mix inside of a device that finally falls out and is struck into the next coin. A detached flake from a previously struck coin falling on the anvil die and then struck into the next coin is not technically considered a dropped element I believe.
     
  17. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    True, but if a letter space can fill with grease, a denticle space can too.
     
  18. Rick Stachowski

    Rick Stachowski Motor City Car Capital

    Well, we need its brother, and or little sister, to know that ....
     
  19. Cascade

    Cascade CAC Variety Nerd

    Yeah it dawned on me right when Rick posted that. I've just only seen letter drops so my mind didn't click on dropped element. Admittedly though, I didn't spend much time cycling through possible causes before I posted it
     
  20. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member

    I would agree on the dropped element. It really looks like it started out as some hardened grease that was stuck in a denticle cavity in the die that fell out. The grease and debris would have been hardened enough to leave the impression of the the denticle, but as the striking pressure came full it forced the grease and debris to liquify and squeeze out creating the smoothed out bowl effect around it and allowing for most of the wreath to still have detail remaining.
     
  21. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Now that I've seen it on my "good" monitor....

    I can't buy a dropped element. Dropped letters retain the precise shape of the cavity they filled; it's intuitive that the stuff would have to be pretty hard-packed to make a strike that accurate into the "new" planchet. They don't "splash" into a larger area coverage, but remain letters.

    This coin has a much larger area of displacement than enough grease to fill a denticle or two could fill even if they *did* disassociate somewhat. And if they did so disassociate, it would be reasonable to expect the looser stuff to squeeze into the device it overlaps rather than striking itself into the field of Cascade's coin.

    Currently - not hardly done thinking about this one yet :) - my working theory is a strikethrough of a detached lamination.
     
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