1880 Alfonso XII 4 Peso

Discussion in 'What's it Worth' started by mdr, Jun 28, 2005.

Page 2 of 2
  1. The_Cave_Troll

    The_Cave_Troll The Coin Troll

    GDJMSP makes a great point that I hadn't considered. I suppose that with a coin of this rarity and value, the number of people in the market to buy it is relatively small, and those people will be bidding regardless of which service you choose.

    On a side note, would you mind telling us how you acquired the coin. I know that I'm interested in knowing that.

    thanks,
    Chris
     
    The_Cave_Troll, Jul 10, 2005
    #21 + Quote Reply
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. mdr

    mdr Junior Member

    Dear Cave Troll and GDJMSP,
    The coin was given to me as payment.
    The former owner claims that Aldo Basso who authored the book Coins, Medals and Tokens of the Philippines sent a representative in the early 90's with a $70,000 offer. I have been unable to confirm this since Basso has passed away and I have been unsuccessful in getting in touch with the supossed representative. The former owner bought it in the mid 60's from a lady who had a hundred 1882's and this one 1880. I think it was aquired then for $3000. It is very important to me to confirm this $70,000 offer because it sets a baseline for the price.
    Does Heritage have representation or contact with coin dealers outside the US. I understand that certain European and Japanese collectors would be interested. I think that if more people are notified it may increase the price.
    I am unclear about the harm of inquiring from others. I have received suggestions on listing it on ebay. I don't know if this is a good idea. What kind of commisions do the auction houses charge?
     
    mdr, Jul 11, 2005
    #22 + Quote Reply
  4. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter


    I think that by this time the value may have gone up and down and so that offer wouldn't set the baseline...I may be wrong...but if Heritage says that they can get $40,000-$60,000 I think they can...but I wouldn't say no just because someone said $70,000 years ago.

    Yes they have dealers all over the world...

    Speedy
     
    Speedy, Jul 11, 2005
    #23 + Quote Reply
  5. The_Cave_Troll

    The_Cave_Troll The Coin Troll

    I strongly recommend using an auction house as opposed to eBaying it. eBay can be a fabulous place, but for a rarity like yours I am certain that Heritage, B&M, et al. would be able to fetch a much higher price (even after the payment of commissions) than eBay.

    If memory serves, the auction houses charge 10-15% in commission on consignments.
     
    The_Cave_Troll, Jul 11, 2005
    #24 + Quote Reply
  6. lawdogct

    lawdogct Coin Collector

    The buzz (attention) of a 3rd specimen being found may increase the sale price by attracting more potential buyers. At any rate, yours is unique because yours is the only know to be in a private collection, the other 2 are in museum collections.

    Best of luck and thank you for sharing your coin and your adventure.
     
    lawdogct, Jul 11, 2005
    #25 + Quote Reply
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator


    eBay = bad idea for a coin like this.

    The harm comes from the fact that any dealer who would be interested in buying this coin has already been contacted or has heard about it from Heritage. So if you contact them - they won't make an offer because they know you have already contacted somebody else and already have an offer. That's just how it works. Coin dealers do not like to be "shopped".

    Shopped means going from dealer to dealer looking for the best price. They do not like it because other coin dealers are their primary buyers. So if you go around asking everybody what they would pay - you are in effect cutting them out of the loop and causing them to lose potential profits. That tends to make them mad - and they don't want to do business with you after that.

    You need to understand - Heritage, or any other auction house, is not going to just buy this coin from you - they are going to sell if for you. And because the amount of money they make depends on how much they can sell it for - they will try verrrrrrrry hard to get the best price they can.
     
    GDJMSP, Jul 11, 2005
    #26 + Quote Reply
  8. mdr

    mdr Junior Member

    dealers comparison/evaluation

    Dear GDJMSP,
    I agree with you on the ebay option.
    What I wanted to do was ask different auction/dealers about their commision rates, how they market and most importat of all-the security of the coin from the time it leaves me till it gets sold.
    Heritage has given me their commision rate. Would they be angry if I inquired from Bowers and Merena about their services and commisson rates?
    Heritage said all I have to do is send the coin by mail, but carrier insurance is only up to $25,000, way below their estimated value of $40-60,000. I am very uneasy about this. Heritage will also have the coin slabbed. I am also uneasy with this since I will not be present during the slabbing process. What if they damage, lose or switch the coin? How do I prove that the coin was undamage when they got it? If it is lost before it is sold how much do they insure it for? These concernes were adressed by verbal assurances that nothing untoward has ever happened in all the time they have conducted business. I would be more at ease with a lot more that a verbal assurance.
     
    mdr, Jul 12, 2005
    #27 + Quote Reply
  9. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter

    Can I make a suggest here...

    Don't shop to other auction co...such as Bowers and Merena--you might lose your deal with Heritage...if you want to sell it jump on that offer.

    You might look into sending the coin by UPS or FedX...if Heritage has the coin slabbed I would be fine with that...I have never had a coin damaged from a grading Co. and I'm sure Heritage would have good photos and such to make sure nothing happened to it...grading co's. grade coins every day valued at 40-60 thousand and more....

    I say that you have a great deal and you should jump at the chance.

    Speedy
     
    Speedy, Jul 12, 2005
    #28 + Quote Reply
  10. mdr

    mdr Junior Member

    shopping

    Dear Speedy and GDJMSP,
    I will take your opinions under advisement. It is very difficult for me to accept because it goes against all my training. :( I do due diligence and extensive research in almost all my transactions especialy one of this magnitude. I can't understand why in a free economy where open competition is the norm the coin dealers and auctioners consider it a breach of etiquete for clients to compare prices, commisssion rates, security and selling proceedures. :confused: I would probably get a bleeding ulcer from worrying while wating for the coin to be sold. I will most likely have sleepless nights, unsure that it is sufficiently insured, being in possession of people I have never met and being auctioned with a reserve price I have no idea is high enough. I have serious doubt if I can take the stress for the prolonged period till the Sept. sale. :(
     
    mdr, Jul 12, 2005
    #29 + Quote Reply
  11. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter

    Well then...do it the way you would feel best...when you watch the coin market you'll see what I mean...but I don't want you to worry about anything so go for it.

    Speedy
     
    Speedy, Jul 12, 2005
    #30 + Quote Reply
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Please don't misunderstand my comments - you can answer all those questions about seller fees, marketing methods, security etc just by visiting the web sites of the auction houses. They make it all quite plain. You can also call them if you wish. But what you don't want to do is ask them about your specific coin and how much they think it might sell for. All the other questions are fine.

    Now - you do have something of a unique problem - that being how to safely ship your coin to whatever auction company you choose. For if I remember correctly you live in the Philippines. And overseas mail for an item like that can be quite risky. I'm not even sure you could insure it. I know maximum insurance in the USA is $25,000 - but have no idea about the Philippines. So you are going to have to carefully research your options on this.

    You might check into private, bonded couriers. They carry packages worldwide on a daily basis worth far more than your coin. You can also check with FedEx but I don't think they'll do it. No harm in asking though. You can also check with the auction house - sometimes they will come and pick up the coin. Once they pick it up - it's their responsibility. And they have the proper insurance for just that reason.

    One other option that would available to you is a bit more involved - but it would work. You could join the ANA, American Numismatic Association and take out your own insurance through them on the coin. They have policies that would cover the coin while you travel. This would allow you to deliver the coin personally to the auction house.

    Now your concerns about the auction house and or the grading company being trustworthy are certainly understandable. But please realize these companies do this every day with coins that sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Some of them even sell for into the millions of dollars. And they have done so for many years. So it is in their best interest to make sure that nothing happens to your coin. A mistake or a loss would put them out of business. They are quite trustworthy.

    And so you understand - the reason the coin has to go to a grading company is so it can be authenticated as well as graded. While the grade is important - it is most important that the coin be proven genuine. And if a company like NGC or PCGS says it is genuine - then the rest of the world will believe it.

    You have valid concerns, I don't blame you. I would have them myself. But all I can do is offer my best advice, suggestions and opinions. If you have any more questions - feel free to ask.
     
    GDJMSP, Jul 12, 2005
    #31 + Quote Reply
  13. mdr

    mdr Junior Member

    Dear Lev,GDJMSP, Speedy, The_Cave_Troll, Cait and lawdogct,

    I recently saw on the Goldberg Coins website:
    http://www.mkjassociates.com/cgi-bin/ilgvulot.pl?site=1&sale=34&lot=2410
    a coin like mine posted. It sold for $42,500.

    A buddy of mine told me that some some auction houses give the whole bid price to the seller and add a commission of 20% which they bill to the bidder. So in the case of the 1880 coin, the seller gets $42,500 and the buyer has to cough up and additional $8,500. Does the buyer end up paying $51,000 for the coin?
    Is this possible???

    My coin was just brought to the US and a relative is going to have it slabbed at PCGS. I was told that if it got a grade higher than AU (the grade of the recently auctioned 1880) I could expect to get an even better price.

    Is the Ira and Goldberg Coins and Collectibles Inc. a reputable firm?

    Mike
     
    mdr, Feb 14, 2006
    #32 + Quote Reply
  14. The_Cave_Troll

    The_Cave_Troll The Coin Troll


    Yes Mike, they are VERY reputable.


    It appears that Heritage's $40,000-$60,000 estimate was accurate, too.
     
    The_Cave_Troll, Feb 14, 2006
    #33 + Quote Reply
  15. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter

    As the Cave Troll said....they are known for being top notch.....
    I hope your coin comes back from PCGS at a great high grade---please keep us updated on how it goes and if you decided to sell it so we can watch the auction ;)

    I can't say anything about the fee charged to the buyer or seller...but I think GDJMSP will know for sure.

    Speedy
     
    Speedy, Feb 14, 2006
    #34 + Quote Reply
  16. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Howdy Mike - Welcome back !

    Yes it is possible. There was a time when Superior had an offer going for sellers that you could consign your coins to them and not pay any seller fees. But I do not know if this offer is still available or not. You would have to contact Superior and ask them. Also, I would not recommend Superior for the sale of this coin. They are trustworthy enough, but they deal primarily in US coinage and their auctions would not attract the kind of buyer you would hope to find in an auction.

    The way auction houses normally work is this - a seller consigns his coins to the firm for sale at an auction. The seller pays a fee that ranges from 7% - 15% depending on the firm and the auction where the coins will be sold. Then the buyer also pays a fee to the auction house of 15% - 20% over and above his bid. But the seller gets no part of that fee. The seller gets the bid amount minus the seller's fee - that's all. And that is true of all auction houses.

    Yes, Goldberg's is one of the most trusted names in the business. I have done business with them many times and never been anything but very happy with the results.
     
    GDJMSP, Feb 14, 2006
    #35 + Quote Reply
  17. lizjensen001

    lizjensen001 New Member

    1880 alfonso 4 peso and other coins i need

    you have one of the coins i've been looking for, please let me know your price... im also looking for the following:

    1) KM #142 - 1867 isabel - 1 peso
    2) KM #143 - 1866 isabel - 2 peso
    3) KM #151- 1880 alfonso - 4 peso
    4) KM #151 - 1881 alfonso - 4 peso
    5) KM #151 - 1885 alfonso - 4 peso
     
    lizjensen001, May 12, 2011
    #36 + Quote Reply
  18. mdr

    mdr Junior Member

    Reply to lizjensen001

    The last sale I am aware of for the 1880 Alfonso XII 4 Peso was before 2006.
    It was for $51,000.
    I have not researched the current prices.
    The coin is presently in the Bay Area.
    You can communicate with me privately at:
    michael.reidenbach@gmail.com

    ****************************************************************

     
    mdr, May 12, 2011
    #37 + Quote Reply
Page 2 of 2
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page