1879-CC Morgan

Yep, you're right.... Chinese fakes are looking better all the time (though this one doesn't look quite as good as some others I've seen). Not even close to genuine.

 

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I think if you bought it from the kid and it turns out fake, you can call the police and he can be imprisoned for selling counterfeit unmarked coins.

(Very cruel to do that though...)

 

Once confirmed that it's fake, I would talk to him first. It's entirely possible the kid had no idea it was a counterfeit.

 

I agree, he might have been a victim as well.

 

Yes. The lettering also looks off to me.

 

Official verdict

I took the coin to a coin dealer. They said it's fake. It's about 3 grams too light. The other coin, 1878-CC, was 4 grams too light. Turns out there was another dealer just down the block, so just to be safe, I took it there. He also said fake. Besides weighing the coins, he showed me a "ping" test where you balance the coin on your knuckle and gently strike it with another coin. It makes a ringing sound, which you can then compare with the sound a known authentic coin. The authentic one makes a deeper and longer lasting ring. It's amazing you were all able to see this from the photos. I notified the kid who sold them to me and I opened a case on PayPal. Unless he's putting on an act, he now thinks I'm scamming him. Is it possible he's telling the truth about getting the coins from his grandfather who bought them many years ago from a coin shop? That would mean that these were counterfeited long ago.

 

dosen't really matter if he knew or not if they are fake then they are fake - was it an ebay deal or just someone you know?

 

No real surprise there. That's not the first time we have spotted fakes here and unfortunately it won't be the last.

Hope you didn't pay much for them.

 

I remember the first counterfeit coin I received in change... back in 1953 (a Henning nickel). Then about 10 years ago I bought a bust half through eBay that turned out to be fake... and back then you had no "buyer protection" like there is now. I assume you bought these coins online and used PayPal, so you should be OK. Listen, anytime you hear the "grandma/grandpa" storyline, a red flag should drop in front of you.

 

Sure...people have been counterfeiting coins for along as people have been making coins. It's always been a problem. So, who knows when this coin was counterfeited. I think you have taken the correct actions. Opening the paypal claim and speaking with the person who sold you the coin.

Agreed. He sold you fake coins...and you deserve your money back. It doesn't matter if he knew or not from that perspective...although if he did know what he did was criminal.

 

Not surprised to hear that it was a fake. As I said in my first post, the toning seemed "off". Now that I look at the newest set of photos you posted, I realize that the toning pattern is similair to other "toning" I've seen on Chinese fakes.

It's hard to accurately describe what is wrong with it, it's almost as if they try to replicate album toning, notice how it's darker towards the rims and in the outer portion of the fields, yet the raised liberty's face is not as toned. Yet unlike the natural toning progression, in which the fields are usually somewhat uniformly toned, or you might see a crescent of toning in sharp contrast with an untoned field, the toning seems to fade almost too uniformly in a circular pattern towards the center of the coin. And then you've got an identical toning pattern on the reverse almost as if someone rubbed the center of the coin to remove toning. Look at the eagle's wingtips on the reverse, both have toning that starts roughly at the same spot, the top 1/3 of the wing or so. I'm probably doing a lousy job describing it, but if you've seen plenty of naturally toned Morgans, you'll know what I'm talking about.
The toning progression just doesn't look right to me. It's almost too perfect.

 

That is how I felt too. It looked intentional and unnatural.

 

I had written up something similar to what Race just stated but I decided not to get in the middle of another "is it real, is it fake" argument and deleted it.

All I would add to what RB just stated here is that not only is the toning too perfect, but the overall condition is too perfect. If it was really taken care of this well, it should have natural toning with maybe some (maybe a lot) of luster remaining. You see this on most Chinese counterfeits. They're newly made and absolutely perfect condition but look dirty. There won't be a mark anywhere in the fields. Liberty's cheek will be perfectly clean which is very rare. Usually only MS-66 and up Morgans will have a perfectly clean cheek and some of those still don't.

Weight, diameter and sounding tests are always a good test, but still may not always settle it. Some of them will melt junk common stuff to make rarer ones like CC's so people can profit more. The metal content will be right.

Other fakes I've seen are far from perfect, to a novice collector. But they are really getting good at Morgans. This very well could be a fake that his grandfather ended up with somehow. The Chinese have been making fakes for a long time. Or, he could have bought them on ebay and lied to you.

 

Woah! Sounds like I was right-on-the-money (<---Haha, coin pun) with my first comment... That rarely happens. :too-funny:

-Brian

 

A stopped clock is right twice a day. (All in good fun.)

 

at the first glance, I knew that was as fake as my step-daughter's breasts.