1878 proof indian cent cameo???? includes pictures

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Richard Reynolds, Feb 21, 2015.

?

Is coin cameo

  1. yes

    45.5%
  2. no

    54.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Richard Reynolds

    Richard Reynolds New Member

    I posted on this before not realizing how to send pictures with this thread so I am reposting this with pictures This coin came back pcgs PR64RB. To me it looks cameo. the head, date and words are frosted as well as the wreath on the reverse. I would like to see what you people think. I am not sure why this did not come back cameo. Someone on here posted that pcgs will not grade cameo if the coin comes back RB. Any help will be appreciated. I was told that this was a fairly newly graded coin but I do not know how to tell when this was actually graded.
     

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  3. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    So, sure, the head and most of the wreath look cameo to me, but really none of the letters do. Maybe that's why it didn't come back CAM. The cameo effect on the lower part of the wreath looks like it's barely there, and the obverse letters & date don't really show anything.

    Nice coin, nonetheless, but I agree: not cameo.
     
  4. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    That is ridiculous. If the coin is a cameo, it will get graded as a cameo (at least at NGC it will).

    That being said, I agree with Paul's comments above regarding the devices. It looks like a highly attractive coin, but just doesn't make the full CAM.
     
  5. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky

  6. jello

    jello Not Expert★NormL®

    I agree!!!
    One well struck 1878 IHC
    No matter what grade is on it.
    :)
     
  7. KoinJester

    KoinJester Well-Known Member

    Nice coin , but not a full cameo so no
     
  8. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    Close, but I think that it was graded properly without the CAM designation. Clearly it is the high end of the grade though. You could pretty easily get a bean on that if that is something that you are into.
     
  9. coinman1234

    coinman1234 Not a Well-Known Member

    I think that it should at least have a star for eye appeal,
     
  10. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    That would definitely be true, if PCGS gave stars ;)
     
    coinman1234 likes this.
  11. Coinchemistry 2012

    Coinchemistry 2012 Well-Known Member

    PCGS will only attribute "Red" (supposedly) and not "RB" or "BN" coins for the cameo designation. NGC will consider a coin for the cameo designation regardless of the color designation, which is more rational.

    I could see this in a NGC cameo holder.
     
  12. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    The obv lettering does not have enough frosting to warrant full cameo
     
  13. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    You could try crossing it to NGC. But, as I, and others, have said, the letters (particularly the obverse letters) don't seem to have enough cameo to warrant the designation. Again, nice coin, but no CAM, IMHO.
     
  14. numisport

    numisport Member

    Buy the coin not the holder. Sure, coin is better showing in NGC Pf 64 or 65RB Cameo.
     
  15. statequarterguy

    statequarterguy Love Pucks

    Maybe the pic doesn't show all, but for a 19th century coin, it looks cam to me (including the letters). I'd submit it to NGC.
     
  16. Richard Reynolds

    Richard Reynolds New Member

    just got it back from NGC. I got lucky and they graded it a PR65 RB CAMEO. I appreciate all of the help. Now I have to figure out how I am going to sell this.
     
  17. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    Excellent! Nice score. :)

    I was pretty sure it wouldn't go CAM. Is NGC more liberal with the CAM designation on 19th century stuff?
     
  18. harris498

    harris498 Accumulator

    Very nice coin.
     
  19. Coinchemistry 2012

    Coinchemistry 2012 Well-Known Member

    The answer is more complex than a simple yes or no. Years ago, yes PCGS was much tougher on the cameo designation than NGC. This has tightened up in recent years (especially after the advent of CAC) and the two are about equal at the present, in my opinion. (And I am talking about pieces actually submitted recently and not merely reholdered - some sellers are aware of the phenomenon I reference and simply reholder their coins prior to sale). The only reason that PCGS did not award a cameo designation is because of internal policy which restricts the application of the designation to full red coins. NGC does not have this policy.

    With regards to the original images, I am not surprised by the cameo designation (and think I was one of two who predicted it). The problem is in the interpretation of the images. The OP is not a professional photographer, and you must account for that. Images can be deceptive especially when dealing with early cameo coinage. Also, while it is not impossible, based on my experience with the series it would be an infrequent occurrence (IMHO) that the devices would have that much frost and the letters would not.
     
  20. Coinchemistry 2012

    Coinchemistry 2012 Well-Known Member

    Submit it to CAC first.
     
  21. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    eye appeal is a 10!
     
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