1878-P trade dollar (yeah, right...)?

I totally think its right especially as the style of engraving seems late 19th c and it has the strike and wire rim of a proof both difficult things to fake

 

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Just as a damaged coin I'd send it in even genuine details it would have more value and be easier to sell. Although personally being so damaged I would probably have it carefully mounted and made back into jewelry and enjoy it that way as it's lost its collectable value ( to me personally ) but that's just my personal opinion and I'm sure many will disagree

 

That's possible, of course, and in fact it was my initial assumption. So far, though, nobody's been able to point to any diagnostic indicating that it's fake (including dealers who inspected it in-hand at a local show). My initial certainty (that it was fake) went down as I weighed it, rang it, inspected its details, and showed it to more and more knowledgeable people.

Other than TPG census counts (which can be inflated due to resubmissions), where would I go to see how many of those 900 are "accounted for"?

 

Dealers are notorious in often not being able to recognize fakes. Don't rely on ANYBODY but a TPG to authenticate a coin like that one. Probably 95% chance that it isn't genuine, as they knew how to make a good fake of Trade Dollars for years. If it is real (highly unlikely, and please don't get your hopes up), it would be a definite curiosity. How much would it be worth? Hard to say--it is so badly mutilated in any case. An interesting coin for sure, but please don't count on it being real. Bejing can make engraved coins that look very real, and the inscription could have been added at any time, and antiqued.

 

Maybe, but if I wanted a jewelry piece, I'd start with something more common and in better shape.

My plan is still to submit it (somewhere, someday), and if it's genuine, post it for a nice long time on eBay (probably a high BIN price Or Best Offer). I figure it could take a long while for the right person to stumble across it. (I'd probably shop it around at a show or two as well; since I'm targeting a pretty rarefied audience, I wouldn't begrudge a dealer their healthy cut of the profit.)

 

Decent strategy. Submit it, and all you have to lose is the submission fee. Assume that it isn't genuine, and if it is, all the better.

 

I think it has a good chance of being a proof . Back in the day why wouldn't someone of means buy a proof and have it engraved for some loved one . All you have to do is check it against a proof of that year . Good luck .

 

Do you have a closeup photo of the edge?

 

Not yet. I'll try to remember to get one. I've got a good macro lens, but no specialized lighting or mounting; I'll see what I can do.

Do you need views of the entire edge, or just a close-up of one part? Edge-on, or oblique (showing both the reeding and the wire/fin effect)? I'd like to know what views people will want to see when and if I decide to list it. (Also, when-and-if I get it slabbed, I'd want to get edge images first.)

 

Edge on and as many other views as you are comfortable with .

 

Just stand it on edge between 2 objects to hold it up and get a nice sharp closeup of 2 or 3 of the reeds with their valleys if you can. depth of field will be limited but if the "grooves and lands" are regular and there are parallel striations in the valleys I think you have a genuine coin.

 

While you're at it, perhaps you could reshoot the coin; the reverse in particular?

 

I'll do what I can, but it'll have to be tomorrow or Saturday. If I can take a little more time in setup, I think I can do a better job -- at the very least, I can set up for a long exposure with mirror lockup and such, and stop it down far enough to get both the grooves and lands into the DOF.

Taking a quick look at the coin, the lands look regular, but pretty beaten up, especially around where the hole is. A bit better opposite the hole, but nothing like a contemporary proof. (Then again, when 140 years old you are, not so good YOUR rims will look, hrmm?)

 

Well, I'm having a terrible time getting this imaged -- can't find the remote for my camera, which means mirror lockup won't do any good, and I think I need to use my extension tubes to get the magnification we want (either that, or make room to set up one of the stereomicroscopes, and I've been putting that off for years).

First shot is the edge closest to the hole, second shot is opposite the hole. (Sorry the previews are scaled differently; I didn't crop them to the same overall dimensions. The two full-resolution shots are to the same scale, and if you line up the grooves, they're spaced the same.)



Like I said, the edge is really beaten up around the hole, and the rims have apparently gotten a lot of contact while the thing was actually being worn. I don't see anything that looks like striations in the grooves, but it may be that I'm not providing enough magnification for that.

I'll try to get the reshot reverse and the oblique views of the rims tomorrow...

 

NIce work! I see vertical striations in several of the grooves, and the reeding extends from edge to edge. also, the "lands" are very uniform, allowing for being somewhat beat up, compared to the fakes I have seen. I think this adds to the case for it being genuine.

 

Doc , could you tell me where you're seeing this , like top pic 4th groove from the left , etc .
As my eyes are terrible . But I must say they are very uniform and do narrow at the ends like real genuine ones do . Unlike the few fakes I've seen where they were machine made but don't narrow at the ends . I think he should send it in as I'm pretty far in believing it genuine .

 

top photo-- 2nd, 3d and 4th from right
bottom photo-- 2-6, 9-13 counting from right. looks like a single vertical line in the middle of each one to me.

 

Thanks Doc .

 

A quick googling turns up a Buffington Pa, and also a Buffington coal town (not sure when it was established, late 19th century?)

 

I tried searching for Buffington and California (since that's where the seller was), but all I saw was surnames and street names.

Another CoinTalker (who can out himself if he wishes) has graciously offered to let me piggyback this coin on his next PCGS submission. I'm a bit sad about the prospect of entombing this coin, since it's had such an... eventful life in the raw, but realistically, if it's authentic, I'm probably going to want to sell it and put the money toward coins with more humble origins.