1877 CC - Type 2 Trade Dollar

Discussion in 'What's it Worth' started by cash4coin, Mar 14, 2015.

  1. cash4coin

    cash4coin ran 20 redlights

    Weight and diameter spot on. Type 2 of course. I'm always the skeptic though. Opinions please
     

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  3. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    I don't know what your coin is worth but it doesn't look real to me. An 1877 Trade Dollar from Carson City, I see why you're skeptical, no wear whatsoever. Fake.
     
    tommyc03 likes this.
  4. Dougmeister

    Dougmeister Well-Known Member

    Are those casting bubbles on the date?
     
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  5. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    Cast fake. The reverse really shows all of the problems.
     
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  6. Dougmeister

    Dougmeister Well-Known Member

    Yeah. *Really* bad denticle at 7 o'clock.
     
  7. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    Doesn't look good. CAn you post larger photos? And maybe one of the edge reeding?
     
  8. cash4coin

    cash4coin ran 20 redlights

  9. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    Thanks. the edge reeding looks ok to me, well formed "lands" and they have beveled ends. So far, I am not convinced that the coin is a fake. Also, on the top photo, I think I can see a fine line in at least one of the grooves running from edge to edge (using a magnifying glass). This is found on genuine trade dollars but not, to my knowledge, fakes. Perhaps the owner could confirm if my observation is accurate?
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
  10. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    The edge reeding looks pretty good to me too, but all of the marks on the reverse sure seem like signs of casting. CC trade.jpg It could be genuine, but I would need to be convinced a little better than I am by the image that was provided if I were to purchase it.
     
  11. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    Thanks, large clear photos are a godsend! I couldn't tell much of anything from the ones in the OP. If I am interpreting the lighting correctly, those are indeed raised 'blems' on the coin surface. The defective dentils look 'as made' and not damage, which I could not tell previously. Also, the tips of some dentils from 12 to 3 show tooling marks on them. Many of the letters also have a rounded, 'pillow' look to them. IMO, a better than average fake made to fool collectors.

    Also, for some reason last night the zoom feature wasn't working on my computer and I could not get a really close look at the reeding. Today it is working and I see that: (1) the beveling of the ends of the reeds is not uniform (2) some of the reed ends are malformed, and not from damage and (3) the fine vertical lines that should be in the 'valleys'-- aren't there. My faith in the edge as a counterfeit detection tool remains firm.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
  12. SteveCaruso

    SteveCaruso Counterfeit Collector

    The copious casting zits on the reverse alone -- especially in the denticles -- disqualify it as genuine.

    It's a *gorgeous* fake. :)
     
  13. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    By way of explanation, lest you all think me a moron, yesterday I didn't know how to get the O.P.'s photos to blow up to plus size, or I would not have been so hesitant to call this one a fake. It was pretty obvious once the pix were the size of a salad plate, much tougher when only about 3" wide.
     
  14. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    None of us think you're a moron. It's true that this is a fairly high quality fake and is pretty convincing with the small images.
     
    SteveCaruso likes this.
  15. cash4coin

    cash4coin ran 20 redlights

  16. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    I'm seeing many signs of casting on the obverse too with the larger images. Sorry @cash4coin I hope you didn't get taken on this one.
     
  17. cash4coin

    cash4coin ran 20 redlights

    I don't believe I was taken, therefore if I was taken, I don't feel taken. o_O Actually this coin is in a large binder of coins accumulated over many (30+) years. I have no idea when this coin entered into my possession, what was paid for it, or where it came from. It's an enigma coin. I'll send it off someday just to satisfy my curiosity. Thanks for all's opinions. When I do send it off, within a few months, I'll post the results here. I've learned a lot from the posts herein. TY
     
  18. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    Why would you send it off? No chance that it is genuine. If anything bring it to your LCS and have them look at it.
     
  19. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    cash4coins, thanks for posting the additional images. The obverse has a lot of small raised pimples too, and poorly formed dentils at the lower right. The evidence is overwhelming that it's a fake, I'm afraid.
     
    SteveCaruso likes this.
  20. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Yes, there is evidence of casting. However, that wasn't even what I first noticed. The coin is definitely a fake, with a large number of identifiers. I am not going to post what I noticed here, to prevent assisting future forgers.
     
    Dougmeister likes this.
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