1874 Trade Dollar Carson City

Interested in the grade of this coin I picked up please. Rather dark uneven toning but I thought the eagle looked detailed and the usual wear on the on the bust/dress and head looked less than I have seen previously.....anyway, views welcome. A San Francisco example came with it too.

 

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Nice pair of trade dollars!! I don't think precision grading can be done from photos, but these appear to have a slight bit of wear. I like the design of trades and have considered collecting them more than once. But the coin budget goes only so far.

Cal

 

Nice looking coins, but I only really appreciate them with chop marks. Yes, I know some deem this damage but its history to me.

 

I have seen some with chop marks sell for substantial sums.

 

I have serious doubts about the authenticity.
For one thing, both pieces appear to have been struck from the same obverse die.
That should not happen for coins from two different mints.

 

I have contacted the auction house to assess this concern before they are shipped to me. Thanks

 

Hi Dan,

Could the obverse dies have been produced from the same hub in Philadelphia and then shipped to Carson City and San Francisco? But maybe even then, you would see a difference which would escape me. I’m not an expert on trade dollars.

Cal

 

The obverse die for both coins has exactly the same die lapping effects in the same places. Note the area of the gown folds just to the left of the hay bale. Die lapping is like the effect of rising sea levels - the shoreline is inundated. Note the flat "water" areas surrounding the gown details in that area. A genuine die would not have been hubbed with that. Only lapping of the die after hubbing would cause the flats to form. The chances of die lapping on two different dies at two different mints being exactly the same is minuscule.

 

Thanks Dan. Not surprising, but you know way more about die production and prep than I could ever learn. Cal

 

I knew something was totally wrong before I even read Dan’s comments. Thanks for confirming.

 

they look genuine to me, but the toning looks like something applied to cover up problems with the surfaces.
Still, an up close in hand inspection would be needed to confirm authenticity.

 

After a little closer examination, I would say that they are positively fake.
Compare the two circled areas where the vertical wheat stalks were polished away on the die. Both coins have EXACTLY the same loss pattern, down to the smallest dots. This would be impossible for genuine coins from two different mints.

 

With the additional photos posted above I have to agree with Dan. Quite a few 74-CC's show weakness to varying degrees in that area, but to see the exact same pattern on coins from 2 different mints would be virtually impossible, unless an obverse die was exchanged between CC and SF for some reason, and then 2 coins from the same die show up together in an auction? Probably less likely than getting hit by a piece of space junk. Hope Jack Young sees this thread.

 

Wow, talk about subtle...

May be down in the weeds, but these 3 comparison images:

One dentil:



Back of arms:



And a dent in the toes:

 

For reference found this image of 1874-CC:

 

I added some other detail images; curious if you can tell the auction company?

 

OK, throwing something out there...

The 1874-CC appears to attribute to C-12:



Is it possible the 1874-CC is genuine and the 1874-S that "came with it too" is fake? That one doesn't appear to match a genuine reverse.

 

Jack, could you clarify for me what "C-12" is ?
Excellent analysis of marks on the obv common to both coins.

 

I use John Coxe's nomenclature and attributions for reference.

http://registry.ssdcvams.com/Trade/...VtdksGvnz5ms7_tPew_aem_YEaH6iTch3_BBBHut-6dxQ

 

Thats an invaluable reference Jack thanks.