1873 silver Japanese one Yen

Hi
i have a coin from the Manning Clarke collection (purchased approx. 30 years ago)
it is a 1873 silver 1 yen
cannot find any info either fake or pattern piece
have had metallurgist tests
weight, composition correct for similar coin
has film of worn copper on surface
was told this is left over from minting process

any help appreciated

Thanks

 

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Pictures would certainly help figure out what it is you have, but unless you have misread the date, you don't have a silver yen.

The age of Japanese modern coinage began in Meiji 3 (1870) with, among other coins, a 26.9568 gram silver yen. That coin had a dragon on the obverse, a sunburst on the reverse, and no English inscription or western-style numbers.

The next few years saw a variety of minor coins in copper and silver, but no yen. Finally, in Meiji 7 (1874) the long-running design with the "416 - ONE YEN - 900" inscription under the obverse dragon was issued, with a reverse wreath surrounding the Japanese characters for 1 yen. With some skips, and some minor alterations, that coin was issued for four decades, ending with the Taisho 3 (1914) version.

Neither the Standard Catalog of World Coins, the Japanese Numismatic Dealers Assn. Catalog, nor any of my other multiple references, describe or depict a Meiji 6 (1873) 1 yen denomination.

The JNDA Catalog does show two different Meiji 7 (1874) trade dollar patterns in silver, but no yen patterns in any year.

The "copper film" is not a known problem of the early Japanese western-style mints, and would not usually be expected on a 90% silver coin.

 

hope these pics come through

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It's fake. Probably a Chinese fake. The Western/Christian year 1873 is a dead giveaway.

 

thanks for the info
do you know of other fakes from this year
i couldn't find any, not even a reference

Steve

 

What kinds of fakes are you thinking about? One-yen silver coins, or other denominations?

 

yes
the one yen silver coin
why 1873?
sorry , i am just confused as the only one
i seem to have any info on is mine

Steve

 

Hey!

I have silver(?) 1 yen Meiji 4th year (1871). Cannot find it on catalog. Just the golden one ...
Pictures of both sides attached.
i purchased it in antique market in Taiwan for ~1.5 USD.
They had a lot of the same 1 yen coins.



Looks like fake, but I'd like to get your confirmation.

Thanks!

 

It's definitely a fake. Like the 1873, the 1871 is another one of those fantasy pieces that was never struck.

 

Any silver 1-yen coin dated 1871, 1872 or 1873 (Meiji 4, 5, 6) is probably fake.
Any Japanese silver coin dated 1872 is probably fake.
All Japanese minor silver coins (50-, 20-, and 10-sen) were minted in 1873.

Why 1873? Probably the same reason why there are fake 1864 Seated Liberty dollars that have CC mintmarks and In God We Trust.

 

thanks for confirmation!

 

thanks for your help

 

Not probably - absolutely!

Simply stated, the Chinese intellectual property ripoff industry has far better mechanical skills than intellectual skills. They just don't seem to care whether the legends on their product match reality.

 

I qualified my statement with "probably" because I do not know if there are any patterns with those dates. However, the coins pictured in this thread are definitely fakes.

 

I qualified my statement with "probably" because I do not know if there are any patterns with those dates. However, the coins pictured in this thread are definitely fakes.

 

Actually, the originally pictured Yen may be real. The poster calling this a fake because of the western date is simply wrong; he/she didn't do any research.

This coin does appear in Japanese Coinage by Jacobs and Vermeule. It is a well known source, along with Munro's, to japanese coinage. This coin appears in other catalogs as well, I am surprised it wasn't found.

This coin is Q3 Die A. It DOES have a western date because they traded this with Americans too. In fact, a couple issues of these early Yen are called Dollars.

This coin is listed as Extra Rare because it is a pattern coin. The spiral on the ball the dragon is holding should be counter-clockwise (all others after 1874 are clockwise). Also, simply look at the coin, especially the margins. Are there bits of silver bridging between characters? Most Yen coins are worthless to fake with real silver because they sell for nearly only their silver weight. Much better to make some Morgans. This one, however, would be worth it to fake because there are only supposed to be a limited number. These weren't made for circulation.

Sorry to resurrect an old topic, but the answerer was 100% incorrect.

 

I have never claimed the title of world's greatest expert on anything, but I certainly do my research!

The 2012 Edition of the Japanese Numismatic Dealers Association catalog section on Pattern Coins (pp. 67-69) does not include anything remotely resembling the original posting in this thread. Neither do any previous JNDA catalogs in my collection.

In the 1962 reprint of Munro’s 1904 Coins of Japan, Plate 24, depicting Meiji silver coins, does not show any with a western date; and neither the section of Chapter VI on Meiji Currency commencing at p.210, nor Chapter VII's extensive discussion and pictorialization of Experimental and Ornamental Coins commencing at p. 215 mention any such issue.

My second edition copy of Jacobs & Vermeule’s Japanese Coinage, is MIA, borrowed by a friend, so I can’t immediately verify my recollection that no such pattern is reported there either.

The only records I have found of Japanese coins denominated as "dollars" are the Trade Dollars of Meiji 8-10 (1875-77), and two different Trade Dollar Patterns of Meiji 7 (1874). None of them bear western dates.

I’d be interested in seeing eecash's credentials in the field of Japanese numismatics, and documentation of his claims.

 

It's on page 96. There is even a picture of it.

I don't have credentials, I am a guy with a book. It is that simple

EDIT: I have included a picture to save you the trouble of looking. Thank you for your input on this thread!

 

Thanks eecash, i will now try to get value of coin and a copy of book

 

Hi
if this is a pattern piece, how do i go about value?