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<p>[QUOTE="Jack D. Young, post: 4709739, member: 93371"]I have been working on another variety of deceptive struck fakes actually for quite some time- another pattern besides the 1836 Gobrecht dollar I have previously written about, now an 1871 pattern silver dollar, known as Judd 1146.</p><p><br /></p><p>The 1st example is the believed genuine source coin, NGC 1951038-011, certified in 2005 and recorded as sold in major auctions in Aug and Sept 2011.</p><p><br /></p><p>This example appears to have turned up again as NGC 2791432-009, resubmitted by one of the known bad sellers of the time in June 2014. Like many of the other documented deceptive struck fakes the counterfeiters purchased a genuine example to use to make the counterfeit dies and then later resubmitted it for recertification and sale along with the struck clones...</p><p><br /></p><p>The 1st two images show a comparison of these two highlighting the major common attribution marks including some rim disturbances.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1155585[/ATTACH] </p><p>[ATTACH=full]1155586[/ATTACH] </p><p><br /></p><p>The next lower resolution image is of an example TPG certed 3 months later in Sept 2014 and also shows the major attribution marks. but is more difficult to see (Example #3).</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1155587[/ATTACH] </p><p><br /></p><p>The next higher resolution image, example #4 was submitted in Apr 2015 and deemed "altered surfaces" (NGC 2657329-001). It also carries the major marks with some emphasized ones visible as well (in red). The reverse comparison shows the "ding" next to "N" of the motto and its slight different appearance to the probable genuine source example.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1155588[/ATTACH] </p><p>[ATTACH=full]1155589[/ATTACH] </p><p>[ATTACH=full]1155590[/ATTACH] </p><p><br /></p><p>The last example (#5) is a recent "discovery" for me but previously noted as "suspicious" in a string of possible bad coins sold by the same bad group of known sellers through the Internet in Dec 2015 and is another TPG certified example, but unfortunately another low resolution image.</p><p><br /></p><p>It appears to have several of the main attribution marks as well as the "unique" ones of NGC 2657329-001.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1155592[/ATTACH] </p><p>[ATTACH=full]1155594[/ATTACH] </p><p><br /></p><p>I have also included a time-line for these to better understand which came 1st and try to identify duplicate listings.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1155596[/ATTACH] </p><p><br /></p><p>The main premise here is that the earliest certified example in the time-line is the probable genuine source coin and in this case predates the documented activity of these latest counterfeiters (earliest known source coin in this "series" dates to 2008)...</p><p><br /></p><p>Without any of the examples in hand it is apparent that there is at least one counterfeit in the group and probably more!</p><p><br /></p><p>I appreciate any thoughts!</p><p><br /></p><p>Best, Jack[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Jack D. Young, post: 4709739, member: 93371"]I have been working on another variety of deceptive struck fakes actually for quite some time- another pattern besides the 1836 Gobrecht dollar I have previously written about, now an 1871 pattern silver dollar, known as Judd 1146. The 1st example is the believed genuine source coin, NGC 1951038-011, certified in 2005 and recorded as sold in major auctions in Aug and Sept 2011. This example appears to have turned up again as NGC 2791432-009, resubmitted by one of the known bad sellers of the time in June 2014. Like many of the other documented deceptive struck fakes the counterfeiters purchased a genuine example to use to make the counterfeit dies and then later resubmitted it for recertification and sale along with the struck clones... The 1st two images show a comparison of these two highlighting the major common attribution marks including some rim disturbances. [ATTACH=full]1155585[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1155586[/ATTACH] The next lower resolution image is of an example TPG certed 3 months later in Sept 2014 and also shows the major attribution marks. but is more difficult to see (Example #3). [ATTACH=full]1155587[/ATTACH] The next higher resolution image, example #4 was submitted in Apr 2015 and deemed "altered surfaces" (NGC 2657329-001). It also carries the major marks with some emphasized ones visible as well (in red). The reverse comparison shows the "ding" next to "N" of the motto and its slight different appearance to the probable genuine source example. [ATTACH=full]1155588[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1155589[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1155590[/ATTACH] The last example (#5) is a recent "discovery" for me but previously noted as "suspicious" in a string of possible bad coins sold by the same bad group of known sellers through the Internet in Dec 2015 and is another TPG certified example, but unfortunately another low resolution image. It appears to have several of the main attribution marks as well as the "unique" ones of NGC 2657329-001. [ATTACH=full]1155592[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]1155594[/ATTACH] I have also included a time-line for these to better understand which came 1st and try to identify duplicate listings. [ATTACH=full]1155596[/ATTACH] The main premise here is that the earliest certified example in the time-line is the probable genuine source coin and in this case predates the documented activity of these latest counterfeiters (earliest known source coin in this "series" dates to 2008)... Without any of the examples in hand it is apparent that there is at least one counterfeit in the group and probably more! I appreciate any thoughts! Best, Jack[/QUOTE]
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