1867/?67 RPD Indian Head Penny

Do you think this is a 67/67 repunched die? Snow-1 variation

 

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possibly s3, need clear picture of date. Not s1

 

I wish I could post a better image. I can make out a shadow over the 7, but it certainly isn't the bold 7 that I am seeing in the S1 variety. Can you post the S3 variation? I am trying to find this, no luck so far.

 

Now I can see a shadow in front of the 1 also. Still a rough image...

 

not the 'biggie'

 

Agree, of that I am certain Treashunt. I'm in that "to grade or not to grade place". The coin is in the AU range. With a repunch variety, it might be worth it. That's why I collecting opinions here. Otherwise it will sit in the Danco album, with a side note to remind me it is of a minor variation.

 

To my eyes, I see a similar date position as well as details that may confirm the markers for the Snow-2; Snow-3 has a clearly different date position. On your coin, I think I also make out the repunching on the 1--compare to pic below. Nice coin you have!



Excerpt from Rick Snow's Indian Cent attribution guide.

 

Well, thanks for the information. Appreciate that, and posting the image. Very helpful sir!

 

IMHO, your coin doesn't appear to have the RPD-003 (S-2) or RPD-004 (S-3) date position. The date on your coin is further to the west, and the 7 is very high above the denticles. Also, KurtS linked the S2 which clearly shows extra outlines under the bust, which I don't see on your coin. Acutally, there are extra outlines under the bust on the S3 as well.

I hate to ask, but are you positive the coin is genuine? There are some things that kinda don't look quite right to me. For instance, the base of the 1 looks more squared than what I'm use to seeing. The base of the one on genuine coins typically narrows as it meets the post. The top of the 8 also seems very narrow. Feel free to browse the 1867 date pictures we have up right now on the site for comparison.

 

Hmm...yeah, also the shape/gap between the denticles are sorta funny.

 

I have a funny feeling inside.

 

Great diagram! It's not quite lined up, is it? I also had some misgivings about the coin from the get-go, but I'm not suspicious by default. Given how the fakes are getting better, I should take a closer look at these. Fortunately, I seldom buy IHCs in a grade that would be faked.

 

Yeah, in the comparison photo above the black line goes behind the 3rd pearl on the two known varieties. On the OP's coin, the line is between the 2nd and 3rd pearls. The top of the 1 on the OP coin appears narrower than the two provided for comparison. If it is a genuine coin and has a RPD, it would be a new one.

 

Wow, now I am getting schooled. Thank you for the feedback and images. I will return the coin. I didn't trust my instincts on this. I was interested in the overdate, but didn't have the images to compare it to. Thanks again!

 

I'd just like to reiterate that my thoughts on the coins discussed were opinions and not meant to be expressed as fact. I suggest sending questionable coins to Kevin Flynn or myself if you'd like an expert, microscopic and photographic analysis as to the authenticity of any Indian Cent.

As per author's signature line and pm, there is no charge for attribution, but the action is between you and him ( please use pm rather than forum). Cointalk takes no responsibility. See post #21,22.

 

Yeah, and to clarify when I said "the denticles are sorta funny", that was an opinion too.

 

I was seeking opinions and clarifying my thoughts. Thanks for the objectivity. Ultimately, I have to make my own decision about the coin. I was wondering why I could not pin down the overdate to certain known Snow varieties. I appreciate the frank discussion. There is so much to learn. The harder I push into higher grades, the more I will need to know.

 

I think it best not to take my word for it, or base your decision on this thread. I'd suggest having another expert look at it in-hand to verify its authenticity.

 

Agree, and all part of my learning curve. I must train my eyes for this detail. I am pretty sharp once I have the background information. Right now I don't have enough detailed information to draw from.

 

And the problem of fakes--wherever they might be--will only get much worse. In fact, IHC fakes may become accurate enough and plentiful enough that future collections will become riddled with worthless numismatic forgeries....

That is, unless collectors specialize and become experts in what they collect. Our first line of defense are communities like this where collectors share their expertise--to benefit all. This is essentially more about education, than calling out specific sellers of fakes. But just so I make myself clear--discussing the merits of a coin is not the same as speculating on the motives/intent of any seller.

After all, the middleman isn't really important if we learn how to detect forgeries. I'm constantly learning, to protect myself. For a lot of the coin series I collect, sophisticated forgeries are beginning to show up.