1865 Seated Liberty Dollar Authentication Help

So, get comfortable for a moderately long story. A local seller contacted me looking to sell his deceased fathers entire coin collection. We went back and forth and could never arrive at a number suitable to him. He had taken the collection to a couple local coin shops and got offers from them as well. The collection had a metric ton of mint sets and proof sets which I wasn’t particularly interested in. It did have a lot of old silver and Whitman. Oils that were of interest to me. The primary coin of interest was this 1865 seated Liberty dollar.
Fast forward, the guy decided he would piece out the collection himself on eBay. He listed a few items right out the gate, including the 1865 dollar. He started the bidding at $425. I placed a curiosity bid at $425 with a max of $475. Auction ended and I was the only bidder. I have tried to do research into fake 1865 dollars and have found a few cheap Chinese fakes with really obvious fake digits.
While this coin has some issues, unattractive album toning and plenty of wear and possible cleaning, I was wondering if anyone would care to weigh in on any red flags as to its authenticity. Here are some seller photos. I do not yet have it in hand. Thanks!

 

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Without looking closely, my gut tells me it's good. When you get it, go to Dick Osburn and Brian Cushing's website and try to attribute it.

 

Gotta love those civil war dates.

 

I can’t see anything wrong with it with respect to authenticity. It’s probably been cleaned with something like baking soda, which means it probably would not get a straight grade from a TPG, but other than that, I think that it’s okay.

 

My gut says good as well

 

I'd say it's genuine as nothing stands out to me.

 

Genuine. Rims look nice which is always a plus on these.

 

Here are some better photos. I picked the coin up this morning. It’s a curious little bugger. Very dark in hand but under my typical photo setup it came to life. Any thoughts on grade would be appreciated.

 

The sharpness grade is EF, but as I posted earlier, I think that it has been cleaned with a mild abrasvie at some point.

This was done to a lot of these coins. They didn't circulated that much because by the early 1850s, they melted for more than a dollar. After the Civil War, the premium was even higher in terms of paper money. Since they didn't circulate, a lot of these coins, in their orgiinal skin, tend to be dark. That led to cleaning.

Here is a Seated Dollar that NGC bounced back to me in body bag for "artificial toning." I thought that this coin looked nice, but they didn't. I sold it to another dealer who was buying for a collector who was building a type set in a Dansco Album.

 

Thanks for the information. For what it’s worth, the coin was wrapped in a piece of toilet tissue and housed in a dark blue envelope. According to the seller, it had been in there for decades.

 

It's looked cleaned but appears to be retuning.

 

I think grade is high 35 and maybe into 40. The reverse is stronger than the obverse. I agree it has been dipped but I'd say it's a toss-up if it would straight-grade or not.

I think it's genuine but by no means is that an expert opinion. I can see some of the markers of the OC-2 die marriage:

- Date grid looks correct but cannot see the die chip under the chin.
- I can detect the vertical shield line extensions into the first of the horizontal shield lines.

 

That would have been more than enough to re-tone the coin over time after it had been cleaned. There surfur in the paper, which darkens silver.

 

Can anyone elaborate as to the indications of an earlier cleaning? Obviously the luster is gone in this grade. What are the other signs?

 

To me, I see a well-circulated coin with little or no circulation grime or dirt in the crevices around the devices. This is not definitive in itself.

The color is such that normal tarnishing that would occur from circulation as evidenced by a gray-toned color is not evident on this coin, indicating to my eye that it was dipped off at some time in the past.

The bluish toning is typical of what is called "album toning" from earlier days where the coin would be stored in proximity to sulfur-containing products like paper, cardboard and glue. In the 19th century where there was lots of coal burning, the air itself would contain sulfur in sufficient concentrations to cause toning.

I don't really see the "mild abrasive" cleaning that @johnmilton referred to but he is vastly more experienced than me, so I defer to him.

The toning is somewhat "blotchy" and there is an un-toned "halo" around stars, Liberty's figure and some other devices. I have heard this is often a clue to an old dipping and retoning.

 

Thanks @Publius2 !
Here are some closer photos of the areas in question for die marriage attribution:

 

I think the toning is secondary, after dipping, polishing, or cleaning. From my own experiments, secondary toning tends to be shades of blue, rose, gold or a russet brown. If the coin is polished, the underlying fields will have a glossy, reflective look to them. If cleaned, parallel, straight hairlines will be apparent but often only under angled, point source light (LED or halogen). If only dipped, fields should have the flat/dull look of any circulated silver coin. Honestly, I think it's pretty nice looking and wouldn't mind having her in my collection.

 

Here are a couple more photos without the direct overhead light. These are more representative of how the coin looks in hand.

 

Well, those images are completely different. If the patina is as thick as it looks in the last photos, with the pale halos around the devices, I think it's much less likely that the coin has been fussed with. I like it even more!

 

The new photos show this coin in a much more attractive light. The likelihood of an old dipping and re-toning is still there, IMHO, but it's still an attractive coin.