1864 Two Cents - Large or Small Motto

Looking at picking up this coin for my Type set to upgrade a bit.

Trying to educate myself a bit on this series. There appears to be a Large Motto and a Small Motto version of this year. Looking at the coin, I swear it looks like it may be the Large Motto, but I wanted to ask you experts for your opinion.

Thoughts?

1864 Two Cents by BostonCoins posted Feb 9, 2021 at 1:41 PM

1864 Two Cents Reverse by BostonCoins posted Feb 9, 2021 at 1:43 PM

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Yours is a Large Motto the main way you can tell is how the u's differ

 

Thank you @potty dollar 1878 ! I saw that picture reference, but I was focused on the WE and my eyes were playing tricks on me. Once you pointed out the U, I realized I need to look at the whole motto. Soon as I did that, it became absolutely clear!

As a side note, what do you think of it's condition? I'm guessing XF-AU. The seller is asking for a price right in that range. The WE is a bit mushy. Not sure if that would ding it a bit.

Also, what do you think of the reverse at about 11 o'clock? At first I thought it was a planchette flaw, but the more I look at it, the crack continues over to the right. Could it be a die break?

Thanks for your input!

 

Large motto. A way to help spot it is to look at the G in "God". The small motto looks more cartoony.

 

There appears to be a die crack running from the rim through ATES and ends at OF it might be a variety i also think I see one in AM on the reverse.

 

XF40, also the reverse has a die crack which is extremely common in this series.

 

Can you get a closer image of the date?

 

The interiors of the letters and the leaf under TRU are the tells

 

Here's mine, Found 200? while Metal Detecting for comparison. Notice how the"D" in GOD is same size as the " O " . Also there about 10 other differences .

 

Given the fact that the "We" is weak, I would give it a VF-30, but that's the old grade before "grade-flation" took over. I sold several of these coins as EF graded pieces, with a strong "WE" when I was a dealer. I bought these coins from other dealers as EF graded pieces, so I was not alone in my opinion.

I once cherry picked a Small Motto piece in VF-EF with a stronger "We" from another dealer. The coin still be found misattributed if you keep a sharp eye. Note that the Small Motto variety has the scroll closer to the rim of the coin than there Large Motto pieces.

Here are the two coins in my type set.

Small Motto



Large Motto

 

Here is a great Link for differences : NumisSociety - The 1864 Two Cent Piece Large vs. Small Motto

 

Even in low grades where the motto is completely worn away it can be easily identified by the outermost leaf below GOD. On the large motto that leaf is small, closely conforms to the shape of the leaf below and is distant from the ribbon above it. On the small motto the leaf is large, bulbous, and is very close to the ribbon. Since it is in a protected area, this can be seen even on coins as low as Fair-2.