1863 Civil War Army Navy Token

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by jwevansv, Jul 15, 2006.

  1. jwevansv

    jwevansv Senior Member

    I finally learned how to take some decent pics and upload them to computer, so get ready for some more of my recently acquired coins. I hope you all enjoy.

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  3. natsud

    natsud New Member

    very nice pictures, thanks!!
  4. cwtokenman

    cwtokenman Coin Hoarder

    Nice cwt and pics. I am very interested in knowing any attribution you may have for that token.
  5. jwevansv

    jwevansv Senior Member

    I am sorry to say that I don't know much about the token.
  6. cwtokenman

    cwtokenman Coin Hoarder

    I was asking as it did not quite appear to match known die pairs from what I could tell. The reverse is die #298 if one would consider it a strong strike. Die # 298A is the same, but considered a weak strike. From the die photos, your token displays more detail than the weak strike picture, so I would guess 298.

    Reverse die 298 was paired with obverse dies 10 & 11, and both are quite common in copper.

    Reverse die 298A was only paired with obverse die 9, and is an R-8 rarity (5-10 known).

    A similar scenario here with die 10 being a strong strike, and die 9 being a weak strike of the die.

    Liberty's lowest curl is not in the correct position for any of dies 9, 10 or 11, nor do any of those dies have a "1" that looks like an "I". Although I vaguely recall reading at some time that some of those dies do have that feature (evidently from a rework I would guess). That would still not explain the position of the curl.

    Die 12, another similar die, does have an "I" for a "1", and the lowest curl is a pretty close match to yours as well, but the obverse can not be 12 either, as the point of the bust on your token is closer to the "1" than the first star (as on 9, 10 & 11). On die 12, the point of the bust is closer to the first star than it is to the "1".

    An easy way to tell, although it may be hard to do so with your token, is to count the beads around the rim.
    Die 11 has 92 beads.
    Die 12 has 94 beads.
    Dies 9 & 10 have 90 beads.

    At this point I am somewhat at a loss as to the id of this token. I looked at my list, and I have all three copper varieties. The 9/298A has question marks by it though, so I am not positive of that id. My examples of both die 9 and 11 have die cracks (didn't check the actual token for location though). My die 11 I also noted multiple small cuds, as yours also has.

    I may have sounded misleading above in saying that dies 9 & 10 as well as 298 & 298A are the same except for strength of strike, as that is not actually the case. Dies 10 and 298 (as well as many others) are ascribed to the Scovill Manufacturing Company. Dies 9 and 298A are ascribed to Henry Darius Higgins, who apparently "hubbed" (stamped from a matrix made from another die) from entire Scovill dies.
  7. jwevansv

    jwevansv Senior Member

    Maybe it is another variety that isnt as well known? You seem to know a lot about the token. I appreciate your interest and responses. Let me know if you find out more. I am sure it is racking your brain! It would mine if I didnt know.
  8. tdec1000

    tdec1000 Coin Rich, Money Poor :D

    How much is it worth?
  9. knowtracks

    knowtracks Senior Member

    It is a very pretty token and a great photo!
  10. jackeen

    jackeen Senior Member

    I suspect cwtokenman has more than a passing interest in Civil War tokens.
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