1851 Half Cent..Opinion needed

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by sonlarson, Dec 9, 2009.

  1. 900fine

    900fine doggone it people like me

    Both sides have merit. I lean towards Mike's notion - this coin is easily obtained, especially since the OP is buying this as a type coin.

    Maybe the term "available" fits our discussion better. In that sense, this type has abundant availability in this price range.
     
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  3. Jim M

    Jim M Ride it like ya stole it

    I must not be a people then.... I have purchased coins in slabs that were overgraded on the slabs and paid accordingly. I don't know of a single dealer who purchases coins based on what the slab says. They may look at what the slab says but I can tell you that they do NOT pay for a coin based on the plastic. Granted I don't know alot of dealers personally, maybe in the neighborhood of 100 or so.

    Back to the OP.. I say pay low (~$45) for this coin, its a VF coin and if your willing to spend 90 bucks or so, I think you can do better even if you purchase a TPG and let it out of its coffin.. Yes the mintage is low on half cents but thats a relative term. If they make 3 of something and only 2 people want it.. there is a surplus of the item. Understand?
     
  4. gopher29

    gopher29 Coin Hoarder


    Are you telling me that you think that coin would sell for roughly the same price on Ebay if we threw it up there in its raw state as it would in a PCGS holder? I think that is unlikely. Do a search of completed listings sometime and see for yourself the difference between the selling prices for slabbed coins and raw coins (especially PCGS slabbed coins). I'm not saying slabbed is better than raw I'm just saying that the market seems to think so. I do understand the concept of supply and demand. That has not been in question in this thread. Everyone agrees that half cents have a low demand level which causes their market price to be relatively depressed. What has been questioned is whether or not half cents are scarce. I would say they are relatively scarce based on their mintage. Example: If only 100 coins were produced by the US Mint and nobody wanted them for whatever reason they would be readily "available" to collectors but they would still be considered "scarce".
     
  5. sonlarson

    sonlarson World Silver Collector

    I am confused! Using Numismedia as a pricing guide, They list the FMV of F12 at $67, VF20 at $76, and XF40 at $92. How am I to find a coin in a VF grade and expect to pay only $45? If I grade the coin at VF, which I think it is, how can I only offer $45 and expect to buy it? I agree it looks to have evidense of vergidis, which would lower the value some, but down to the value of a G8?! I am just a common collector, not an expierenced dealer. If we all agree on Vf and I pay, say $80, I have overspent by $4, but I have a nice coin with a small problem. I think it would be better to just tell the dealer that I would like to keep looking for a better example than to insult him/her with an very low offer. Heritage nor Teletrade has nothing in my price range. Hard to get to the shows in my area, always on Sat. and Sun., days I have to work. All of your comments are very imformative, which is what I was asking for. Guess I'll look some more, no rush anyway. Thought I had a good coin, guess I don't.
     
  6. gopher29

    gopher29 Coin Hoarder

    I agree with you. This is a confusing thread. If you offer this guy $45 for this coin he will think you're joking. That coin may not be perfect but it is worth more than forty five bucks. I know everyone here seems to think that 1851 Half Cents are so common they're falling out of the trees but I doubt you're going to find anything even half as nice as this coin for $45.
     
  7. Jim M

    Jim M Ride it like ya stole it

    Greysheet on a VF is 62 bucks. 20% back is where MOST dealers would consider purchasing a coin. This coin however does have a problem knocking it further down the scale. I think $45 is more than fair for this coin. Here is one that I picked up a few months ago.

    [​IMG]

    $35 bucks.
     
  8. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    I agree - somewhat. Most dealers I know will list a MS64 raw coin at the same price as a graded coin - and on choice coins they won't budge. What happens on ebay is anybody's guess - it could go for more or less and that really depends on good pictures. I have also seen (mainly my local store) list graded coins cheaper than what the slab grade says. So I agree with Jim on how dealers buy, from my limited experience - the coin and not the slab.

    I also agree that the dealer might get upset with a low offer of $45 - but that does not mean it is worth more. Just part of the bargaining process at times. I also think this coin is a good example of how tough it is to price some coins - especially when netting a problem coin. Now me I am not convinced there is a problem, but I would play it safe and go with the more experienced forum members.

    And I agree with sonlarson - a polite decline and then just take your time on finding the right coin.
     
  9. gopher29

    gopher29 Coin Hoarder

    35 bucks for that huh? Well, I guess if I could find that coin for $35 I wouldn't be willing to pay more than $45 for the other one. I would've jumped on that 1855 myself for $35 but I'm not a dealer just a collector. If you don't mind me asking, what is your selling price on that 1855 half cent?
     
  10. Jim M

    Jim M Ride it like ya stole it

    I am not a dealer either. I do however know a boatload of them because I have been active in the industry for 40+ years. The coin is not for sale at this time, but when it does become available I will probably sell it for right around what I paid for it. I think that's what its worth at this time.
     
  11. gopher29

    gopher29 Coin Hoarder

    That's a decent looking 1855 half cent. It looks to have been previously cleaned but even then would probably still net grade at least a VG-10. If you ever decide to sell it I would suggest you throw it up on ebay. My guess is it will fetch more than $35.
     
  12. pondman

    pondman Junior Member

    I would never advise anyone on the condition of a coin from a photograph, only because I have enough experience with distasters.

    However when it comes to value:

    If the O.P. needed to sell this coin at the end of the week, he would not need to sell it to a dealer for $35. People who suggest that they can get this for $35 have either: spent on enormous amount of money on a purchasing chain and aggressive marketing, have robbed a pawn shop, or have found someone in distress.

    The coin market isn't segmented as a wall-mart. There isn't a clandestine, old boys network, receiving product at 80% less than the rest of the humans. The reason they have this advantage is because they spend money on other areas, marketing, sales, employees, which give them an advantage.

    $90 +- 20 is about average for the type of coin (retail.) I know everybody wants to buy it for less, but to get it at $35 is probably going to cost you more than it's worth. Yeah, he could spend $100 in gas getting to a coin show, or shopping in another town.

    In a PCGS slab I could sell it for $110+-10 after fees in hades(ebay), being an honest person, but that takes a little bit of work and time, again which cost money. I have my doubts he could get a slab for $90 without effort.

    As to whether this is a common coin or not, it doesn't matter. Televisions are common. Try and find a cheap one. It's a matter of interest and what people are paying. My point: $90 is right in the ballpark, for a XF without any problems. Could go up or down in the future. Today that's about what it is.
     
  13. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    I agree - but problem free. I see the dirt on this one, but not what might be lurking in the dirt that the others see. So some good points.
     
  14. gopher29

    gopher29 Coin Hoarder

    Grading coins from photographs is not the best method but it's what we do here.
     
  15. sonlarson

    sonlarson World Silver Collector

    Thanks for everyones help. I decided to purchase the coin. I paid more than $35 but less than $80. With the information I got on this post, I was able to return to the dealer and question the condition of the coin with confidence and intelligence. I made an offer based on grading and details which I felt was fair. He counter offered and we met in the middle. I left with a coin and he is searching for another coin for me. Win-Win.

    This is so much better than buying to coin first and then getting the bad news.
     
  16. gopher29

    gopher29 Coin Hoarder


    Congrats, sounds like you got a nice coin at a fair price.
     
  17. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    I just read the entire thread, and enjoyed the discussion. I habitually overgrade old copper so it was good to read the viewpoints of more experienced collectors. The semantic issues revolving around "scarcity" are interesting. I prefer to think of coins in terms of their availability to an interested collector. Mintage figures can be very misleading if they are used as a major factor to determine monetary value. An interesting and educational experience for me has been to try to complete a set (either complete, or a fixed date span) for a given issue in a given condition, and see which coins are the hardest to find. They aren't always the ones with the lowest mintage.
     
  18. Catbert

    Catbert Evil Cat

    Congrats, Mike. I love early copper!
     
  19. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    Congrats - that is how it should work. How about some pictures? Is it just dirt in the letters?

    Gotta love the little brother coppers. :)
     
  20. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon


    :thumb:
     
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