1830 Capped Bust Half - Overton Attribution Help Needed

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Marshall, Oct 4, 2020.

  1. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    1830 Bust Half.jpg
    I purchased this last night and went through Heritage Archives of Overton-101 through Overton-120. None seem to match. The keys I am looking at are Small O (and Medium O), Stars 3,4,5 and 10 point between dentils and no severe lapping on the Obverse. The reverse has a low E(S) and 50 is further left than normal with 5 closer to the leaves on the left than the O is to C. The closest I saw was the Large Letters, but this is definitely not that reverse.
     
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  3. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Does the upper loop of the 3 have a "crab claw?"
     
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  4. okbustchaser

    okbustchaser I may be old but I still appreciate a pretty bust Supporter

    117
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
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  5. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 Casual Collector / error expert "in Training "

    What's going on with the lower outside part of the 3 ?
     
  6. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    I don't know what a crab claw is relative to a 3. I usually think of asymmetric size of adjoining hair strands on Large Cents.

    The photos are posted above, but if they're inadequate, I'll be getting the coin in about a week.
     
  7. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 Casual Collector / error expert "in Training "

    Ok keep us posted ( no pun intended).
     
  8. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes? Supporter

    I agree with Obverse 10, but this looks like an early die state to me. The pictures I see of O-118 all have the stars drawn out, unlike seen here.

    I think this is Reverse O, instead of P. Look at the D-E alignment (on Rev P, the E is farther right) and the C. (on Rev O, the C is higher).

    I think this points to O-117. R-2.

    Check them out here:
    http://maibockaddict.com/1830-o-117-r2-capped-bust-half-dollar.shtml
    http://maibockaddict.com/1830-o-118-r3-capped-bust-half-dollar.shtml
     
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  9. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    This could easily be the earlier die state of the obverse before stars lapp into the dentils, but the reverse is still wrong
     
  10. okbustchaser

    okbustchaser I may be old but I still appreciate a pretty bust Supporter

    It is 117...I mistyped and corrected after your quote (but before reading your response)
     
  11. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes? Supporter

    Good, glad we agree! :)
     
  12. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 Casual Collector / error expert "in Training "

    ok I have no idea what you guys just said. Sounds like Colonial Coin Talk .
     
  13. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes? Supporter

    Are you saying you don't think it matches O-117?

    Take a look at the link I posted - I think your coin is a solid match.
     
  14. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    What about the clash that isn't present on Marshals coin.
     
  15. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes? Supporter

    Let me explain:
    Capped Bust Half dollars are attributed by the Overton Guide to Capped Bust Half Dollars.

    Each date is broken down into obverse dies (given a number) and reverse dies (given a letter). Throughout the year, various combinations of obverse and reverse dies are used, and each combination is given an Overton Number (O-101, O-102, etc).

    There are a few major markers that we look at for each die. Each element was handpunched into the die, so each die varies slightly. If there are die cracks present, that really helps since die cracks are distinctive and unique.

    On the obverse die, we look at the position of the date and the space between the numerals. We also look at each star, how far its positioned from the rim or devices, and where it's pointing at the dentils. The stars may also be recut, which shows as apparent doubling. On some die states, as the die is worn, the stars might look stretched, or drawn out to the rim.

    On the reverse die, the first element that most people look at is the alignment of the T in States and the I in Pluribus. These two letters seem to vary the most in position relative to each other, and is the easiest way to rule out many varieties. Next, I usually look at the D of United relative to the E of E Pluribus. These elements also have a good bit of variation. After those, I always look at the denomination, at the bottom, 50 C. The shape of those elements, and the relative position (how high they are from the rim, how distant they are from each other) is usually enough to confirm what variety it is. If those aren't enough, the Overton guide usually has information about the position of the arrowheads relative to the last A of America, as well as the stripes in the shield (sometimes, the stripes carry over into the feathers or into the crossbars).

    If there are any unique elements, such as a filled letter (the tops of the As are sometimes filled), or a letter which is abnormally low or high, or close or far from another element, the guide points that out as well.

    Once you understand what the important elements are, all you have to do is match your coin to the picture or description, and you can identify which variety it is.
     
  16. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes? Supporter

    Entirely plausible that Marshal's coin was struck before the clash. The clash is not described or pictured in the Overton guide.
     
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  17. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    This is a great site. The engraver's scratch is missing, but that could be post mint. I passed this up thinking 50 was barely left of this reverse, but other diagnostics match.

    I think I see polishing lines or a clash between the leaves on the left to the center of the top of 5 and another from the left side of 0 up to right claw which match up with the O-117.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2020
  18. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    I was responding to the O-118 for the same reasons you mentioned. Earlier use of the Obverse and a different reverse.
     
  19. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    This is the obverse "crab claw" to look for with the 1830 large letters, although it's used on another one that isn't the O-114 as well.
    20201004_110312.jpg
     
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  20. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Great answers, good lesson, thanks for posting it.
     
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