1824/1 Capped Bust Half Grade Input

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Mark Metzger, May 14, 2020.

  1. Mark Metzger

    Mark Metzger Well-Known Member

    My son and I were going through his type book this morning and got to looking at his 1824 half dollar. We looked at photo grade to try and assess the grade but found it to be very contradictory (the detail on her hair actually gets WORSE as the grade progresses from 25 through 50). So, I’d love to hear the forum’s thoughts on this coin’s grade.
    It is very attractive in hand.
    Thanks!
    Mark and Henry
    AF190DFB-F104-49B7-AD76-2626E6289A62.jpeg 281E681D-E277-45DF-AE69-AFE76F436241.jpeg
     
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  3. ddoomm1

    ddoomm1 keep on running

  4. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

  5. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes? Supporter

    Photograde isn't the best for these. The reason is, throughout the Capped Bust Half series, there were actually *several* subtypes, where the bust was redesigned and re-engraved to strengthen detail, make it strike better, etc. An 1807 is going to have a *very* different wear pattern than an 1824 or 1836. Each subtype has to be graded accordingly. Additionally, each die marriage had its own strike characteristics, so an 1824 O-101 and an 1824 O-109 might have its own wear patterns! That level of detail is usually left to a specialist, but you can get a pretty good idea by comparing to the appropriate subtype.

    All that to say - I think your coin is probably VF-30 or 35. Compare yours to mine, graded PCGS EF-40. There appears to be more wear on your coin, and I don't see the luster around the stars that I would want for a 40. Still quite a lot of meat left, though. I think yours is a Choice VF.

    JPA948 obverse.jpg JPA948 reverse.jpg
     
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  6. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector Supporter

    IMO the OP's coin will be considered as having original surfaces AND would grade XF-40.
     
  7. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    What a nice coin you have! Your coin intrigued me, so I looked deeper and I believe you have an overdate. upload_2020-5-14_11-49-3.png
     
  8. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    I'm going with VF35. MHO
     
  9. Mark Metzger

    Mark Metzger Well-Known Member

    Here are a couple other shots of the coin on a different surface and in better lighting. I think this is a more accurate representation of the coin in hand.
    Thanks for all the input so far.
    5AB27783-F6CF-4310-824B-44BDA38EF723.jpeg A757F4DC-5794-46F7-AD96-06100967A61B.jpeg
     
  10. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    Further: The 7-8 o'clock position of the '8', the dot inside the top curl of the '2' and the dot above the lower left serif of the '4'.
    Now the grade: From a purely physical viewpoint, I believe this coin should grade AU-53. From an esthetic view, ??
     
  11. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    Woah! Love those pics. Now you forced me to upgrade my post. How about an AU-58+. This coin is gorgeous!
     
  12. okbustchaser

    okbustchaser Just plain busted Supporter

    Yes, it is the Overton 101 1824/1. Mark stated this in the thread title.

    You are IMO way too high in your grade estimate. It is a 30 to 35. On the right day a TPG MIGHT call it 40.
     
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  13. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    It's a 35 for sure, 49 on a good day or the TPG was drinking on the job. The hair is the main guideline on these coins. It's a beautiful example of a Bust Half Dollar. Also, it's definitely the overdate the OP mentioned.
     
  14. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Well-Known Member

    You might want to use https://www.remove.bg/upload if you can't get a black or white background. When I converted your photos, it did leave a bit of the background on the top of the coin but makes the coin easier to view. Just a thought.
    image-removebg-preview.png
    image-removebg-preview-3.png
     
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  15. Nathan401

    Nathan401 Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Supporter

    I’d be tickled if I submitted this and it straight graded 35. That’s what I would submit it hoping for.
     
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  16. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

  17. Mark Metzger

    Mark Metzger Well-Known Member

    I was in the 35-40 camp myself so I’m happy to see the forum agrees. Now we just need to decide whether or not to submit it for grading. It is currently in my sons type set but could be easily be replaced with a different bust half.
     
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  18. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    Be sure to advise us on the grade should you decide to send in.
     
  19. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    I based my opinion on the following:
    Obverse:
    1. Denticulation.
    2. Wear on cap.
    3. Wear on hair.
    4. Wear on scarf bow knot.
    5. Most stars complete with little wear.
    Reverse:
    1. Denticulation.
    2. Flute on arrowheads.
    3. Wear of claws.
    4. Wear on both wing feathers.
    5. Wear on leaves.
    6. Wear on the eagles beak, head and neck feathers.
    7. Wear on the E PLURIBUS UNUM banner or ribbon.

    @physics-fan3.14 coin graded at EF-40 so, how can anyone not grade @Nathan401's coin higher. The proof is in front of my eyes, or am I missing something?
     
  20. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes? Supporter

    Yes, unfortunately, you are apparently missing a lot of things. Nathan didn't post the coin, Mark did.

    And every single point you mention on Mark's coin has more wear. There is absolutely no way that this coin would ever be considered for AU, not to mention AU-58+! An AU-58+ is a coin which has literally had a single thumb swipe across its surface, with only the most barely perceptible disturbance in the luster on the highest points. This coin has wear to the point that design details are beginning to merge into flat parts!

    It is a nice coin, but an AU grade is just in the wrong solar system.
     
  21. Robert Ransom

    Robert Ransom Well-Known Member

    If Mark/Henry decide to have it graded, I hope he posts it for me (at least) to see.
    I hope you view this discussion as just that and not an attack on you, but how do you justify VF-30 or35. I made the comparison you asked Mark to make and his coin is better in all the points I mentioned.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
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