1814 Classic Head Cent, doubled obverse.

Hello CT members,
I would like some direction for research. I recently looked at an 1814 Classic Head Cent at my LCS. It is well circulated but the obverse looks dramatically doubled. The date, profile and nearly all the stars. I've been looking up all the info I can find but all I'm finding talks about die parings. Can someone point me to some resources? I'm considering buying it but without more information, I'm on the fence. Thanks. Sorry, no photos yet but if I purchase it, I will post some.
Thanks for any and all assistance.

 

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Can't tell or say much without pictures but I would think most likely its longacre doubling if that was a thing pre indian cent.

 

What @potty dollar 1878 said.

Without pictures you can't really tell.

It won't be Longacre doubling as the design is pre Longacre, he took over as Chief Engraver after Gobrecht died in 1844. Having said that some of Gobrecht's later coins did show some similar characteristics. All that aside, without pictures this conversation is moot.

Pictures will tell all. I'd hazard a guess that it is possibly MD or similar. Look closely at the look of the doubling.

 

Thanks for the reply. I may have to buy it so I can post it. I don't think its longacre doubling. This is more dramatic then the famed 1955 Lincoln Cent. After the Houston Freeze passes, I plan to either purchase it, or at least take some photos to post. Thanks for the help.

 

If it is that dramatic, and a true Doubled Die, it would have been listed someplace for sure. This increases the likelihood of it being an MD coin, albeit a fantastic example of MD which I personally would get for myself just to use as a teaching aide and talking point!

Btw... Did you note if the coin was a plain 4 or Crosslet 4?

 

MD doubling was a thing over 200 years ago?I thought that was only on modern coins like mostly common on zinc cents or coins from the 20th century and up

 

Does it look anything like this?

 

Thanks. I'm also thinking it may be counterfeit but puzzled why someone would go to that effort for a coin in this condition. Using PCGS Photograde as a guide, I'd say the reverse is a 1. Nearly all devices around the rim are gone, the center devices are present enough to tell what it is. The obverse is a 2-3 maybe 4. The date is clear enough to see without magnification but the "4" is very faint. Enough that I couldn't tell if it was "plain 4" or a "crosslet 4". I'm assuming plain as I didn't see anything suggesting a crosslet.
So, in the condition described, would you think someone would go to the effort to counterfeit one with a value around $100.00? Without photos it's pure speculation but If you have a thought, I'm interested. Thanks again.

 

Mike, the Chinese counterfeiters have been flooding the market with fakes of all sorts, common and not so common coins. They 'artificially' wear and tone the coins and sell to suckers for a super cheap price. One Fb group I'm in specialises in ferreting out the fakes on eBay and the likes, getting the coin sales shut down and working with The Anti Counterfeiting Task Force and Secret Service to get these sellers stopped. Unfortunately too many uneducated people buy these fakes, supporting the fakirs....

The ACEF and Secret Service recently (past 12 months I think) closed down a Texas based group that were selling counterfeits through the small Auction Houses and making an absolute killing. The cost to make the coins is pennies in the dollar, so the profit margin for the counterfeiters is massive

 

This one is a much lower grade. Using your photo as a guide, all devices around the rim would be rotated several degrees. The date looked like it was struck as "11881144" with nearly all the stars have a bit of overlapping to some degree but still spaced. However Liberty is not rotated and has similar apparent doubling as in your example. No detail in Miss Liberties profile but the "Liberty" headband is readable.
I plan to photo and likely purchase for a conversation piece if nothing else. My LCS dealer has been very upfront with me so I trust him. He held this piece aside for my opinion on it and I'm trying to help him. He's not sure he wants to sell it, but that is his business. As he told me, "I'm in business, I'm not supposed to be a collector". Thanks for your reply.

 

Absolutely, I've been a victim recently from an auction on an ASE. I was able to get the seller to replace it with an authentic coin that I have verified. I was helped from several members here on CT. Thanks for your reply.

 

If you have to buy a coin to find out what it is I think I'd just pass on the coin to be safe.

 

There's a great quote by "Elisha Morningstar, Coin Dealer" in the 1947 Philip Marlow movie "The Brasher Doubloon"...

EM: "I told the person that it was genuine and that I would give $2,000 for it."
PM: "Mrs. Murdoch said it's worth $10,000!"
EM: "I'm not in business for my health."

 

Thanks. That's good advice. I'm still on the fence but I trust this guy. Hasn't done me wrong in over 4 years. He'll let me photo it so I can post. He actually asked me for help on it. He couldn't find any information on it either. Then again, it's always possible I'm a blind man following a fool.

 

Yes it was. It results from looseness in the press from bolts working themselves loose. This became especially common in the 1820's and early 30's. At that time they were still using the same screw presses that had been in operation since the 1790's and they were just so worn out that tightening up the bolts just didn'twork for very long before they worked themselves loose again. The 1833 large cent in post #8 shows a good example of the result.

There is also the possibility of a double strike on the OP coin, but images would be required to tell for sure.

 

I'll get the photos up as soon as we get back to some sort of normalcy here in Houston. I very appreciate the responses.

 

OK, was able to get out and get some photos. Before it starts, I know they're not that good but I think you will see what I'm referring to. Blame it on a shaky iPhone. I'm just doing the research for the current owner but very interested in opinions. Thanks in advance. (No those are not my dirty fingernails.)

 

Neat coin! I definitely see some profile doubling...which is what I would suspect for the rest. Although, I have to admit, I've never seen a date like that. I'll just sit back and listen to the experts have to say... @Fred Weinberg

 

You might have something there i don't think its MD the date is a dead giveaway unless its the pictures this could be a ddo.