1812 Capped Bust Half Dollar ~~ Opinions

Hey bonedigger, just out of curiosity, if you bought a coin like that how long would it be before the coin was freed from the slab??

 

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Yes, I don't feel that the coin looks harshly cleaned from the pictures I see. Of course, in hand could be a different story. I'd give it an XF45.

 

here it is

 

Sorry, just got back from taking the dogs to the vet. Rabies shots...

Back to coins. It all depends. If the coin didn't fit into the slots of the BCDHDC folder it would be instantaneously cracked out. However, if it was (say a small older ANACS slab) moderate in size and not too far off of where I THINK the coin actually is 'grade wise & condition' I might leave it in. FYI, I cracked out a Jules Revier 1810 BHD because the grade on the slab was AU-58 and I thought it was closer to 45/50, those coins are horribly over-graded. Besides the NGC slab didn't fit into the page pockets.

I don't hate slabs as an authenticating service. I think some coins (*my 1815/12) Bust Half Dollar is protected in the slab from individuals who do actually want to handle the coin and take a look. Plus it adds that needed 2nd opinion on rare pieces, etc. Grade wise, HAHAHAHAHA, they (slabs) are useless. It will be a cold day in hell before I send in a coin I know is real just to get it graded...

Take Care
Ben

 

I'm with you Ben. I crack em out as fast as I get them if authentication is not a question.

Incidentally, the last I read, PCGS and NGC don't claim to not slab cleaned coins. They reject those that have altered surfaces by whatever process (most of the time), but there are plenty of slab crackers that dip coins on a regular basis in hopes of getting a higher grade, and if done properly, the TPG,s don't have a clue. NGC also slabs certain coins that are cleaned by NCS. The bottom line is that the TPG's will adjust their policy as needed depending on the circumstances. They even slab damaged coins if the spirit moves them. CIP, that damaged 1792 Half Disme that was "possibly cancelled at the Mint", along with just about every rare Colonial coin that is damaged.

As for the 1812 CBH, it looks to have been wiped or thumbed, and being from the older generation of collectors, I'd never give it an MS63 grade even after six beers. However, it's exactly the kind of coin I prefer for my collection. AU58 to slider unc.

Nice coin!

 

Don't assume that the TPG's don't have a clue about coins having been dipped. They often know or strongly suspect that a coin has been dipped, but choose to (knowingly) grade such pieces.

For purposes of accuracy, the coin you referred to as a Half Disme was in fact a Disme.

Also, I see no evidence that the 1812 Bust Half Dollar was wiped or thumbed and don't know how you can come to such a conclusion based solely on the images provided. Lastly, with respect to the assigned grade - it's important to keep in mind that it might look very different in-hand than it does in the images. In fact, I would expect that to be the case.

 

With Bust Half Dollars, it's ALL opinion after Variety and Authenticity, which BTW ANACS had a good handle on, lights-out in the old days. If you see an older ANACS holder with an Overton # on it, it's the correct one. PCGS and NGC just can't seem to get a good BHD man working for them long enough to attribute correctly and don't even try it...

Ben

 

I came to the conclusion that this coin "looks" like it was wiped or thumbed because the contrast between the protected areas and the unprotected areas is typical of a coin that has been monkeyed with. Hey, maybe it was mishandled or just plain circulated, but it's not original by any means and not any better grade wise than a slider. One can't always tell if a coin is original, but there are certain "tells" that show a coin to NOT be original and this coin fits.

Trying to grade accurately in the MS range from a photo is nearly impossible, and the vast majority of collectors can't accurately function in the MS range of the 70 point grading system with the coin in hand. In fact, neither can the alleged professionals. A few years back a collector reported his results of multiple submissions the the top two TPG's in one of the Numismatic publications. 11 coins, all dated 1861, and not a one got the same grade every time. One in particular was a Proof gold coin that was slabbed by NGC, resubmitted to NGC and got body bagged, resubmitted again to NGC and was slabbed at a different grade than originally graded. That's just one of many examples I can produce if needed.

The TPG's generally do not use any more than 7X magnification to "GRADE" coins. It's impossible to detect the microscopic reaction to a coin from a quick dip with that little magnification. And the TPG's don't spend very much effort on coins that don't require serious examination to authenticate or attribute. Even if they examine a dipped coin under a stereomicroscope, I doubt that most would even know what to look for.

For those and many other reasons, plus the fact that third party grading is nothing more that a marketing ploy, I believe it prudent to make assumptions about everything that is not clearly defined by the TPG's, which amounts to just about everything.

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Among other things, I believe it is prudent NOT to make assumptions.