1808 TH Mexico (Spanish Colony) 8 Reales; KM# 109: This looks Cast, to me.

~38.75mm, ~27grams (light).
Very slightly dished; convex obverse, concave reverse.
Does the grain & fine pitting say cast to anyone? Reverse appears much better.
Rim work is unfamiliar, to me: can't say either way...Tell me what you see, please.

Thanks! wlw

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

That obverse screams fake to me. But I don't know enough to say definitively.

 

Fake, casting bubbles, the reading is 100 % fake

 

Genuine issues were made with a parallel edging mill that typically left two sections where the edge design overlaps. The length of both sections of overlap will be the same and they will appear 180 degree from each other.




I could not quite get the edge overlaps exactly in the middle of the photograph, but they are directly opposite each other.

Do you see this on your example? Forgeries typically do not show edge design overlaps on opposite sides.

 

I am not saying that the OP coin is genuine but I will observe that the example shows stress lines usually associated with the striking of an improperly annealed planchet, so this is perhaps evidence of a struck coin and not a cast coin. The pitting does not look like casting bubbles to me, more like an environmental effect. The process of converting an ingot to a fillet to a round blank and then into a planchet involved several acid baths -- if genuine, perhaps it just sat in one too long. However, you can see that most of these pits occur within patches of darker toning so maybe this is the result of a very inexpert dip.

 

I haven't looked at the rim critically, for the overlap...stapled it up in a flip immediately post-pics. The weight is 99.75% of 27.0674 grams (27.0 grams)

I like the reverse well enough, and jgenn's observation about the potential problems with the minting process further encourages me to get it certified.

Mint mark is TS vs Mo; after the 8R is P.I. vs T.H.
What of these anomalies to KM# 109?

End of the day: I'm hopeful it isn't fake, but remain confused about some specifics.

Thanks, all... wlw

 

Your example resembles an issue from Potosi which used the combined letters PTS as its mintmark. You will find it listed under Bolivia KM#73.

 

Very good...Thank you!

That leaves the "P.I." un-explained...the search continues!

I'll suppose (that's like 'assume' without action) that ANACS will (if genuine) sort it all out. I am increasingly hopeful that it's a good coin...I need a small success. wlw

 

P. J. is the assayer's initials.

 

YES! I wouldn't be able to mark-up the pics, as you did in red...but there are definitely two 'laps', ~180 degrees apart, in the chain-link edge treatment.

I'll try to get decent-enough pics of them that you'll have little question about the issue. I'll post here when I do. wlw

 

Without a 'details' slab, I'll have no hard evidence of it being genuine...a real plus, in light of the acknowledged existence of plenty of counterfeit examples. And, on the dreaded chance of it being a fake, at least I'll know for sure. There's not enough value to warrant certification...but my heart will rest far more calmly with the question out of the way.

Also: I see, under sufficient magnification, that the foot of the 'I' is indeed oddly truncated...so can only be a 'J'. Gotta be a die variety, eh? Thanks, wlw

 

OK. Trimmed Post-It Note corners for pointers; here are the edge pics showing clearly (to me) the lap areas at about 180 degrees apart.

Also, the vertical bar of the 'J' showing the odd shape at the bottom.

How'm I doin? wlw

 

Nice edge photos. The overlaps as shown are a compelling factor in calling this one genuine. If a specific gravity measurement shows roughly 90% silver, 10% copper then you most likely have a genuine issue.

I don't think the "J" is anything special, perhaps some distortion due to die fatigue.

FYI: the TPGs don't spend much time on authentication for anything this inexpensive -- they are primarily paid for their grading ability. If you've seen any videos from the grading room you can see a coin is only examined for a few minutes. They typically don't even weigh coins. IMO, this one will be considered a "details" coin right away and your chances of any special examination for authenticity will be very low. I don't see anything that would prevent this being slabbed as authentic but with a details grade. Probably not worth the expense.

 

Thanks! I've got the scale, and understand the SG process theoretically, but I've not done it, so am hesitant to attempt the trial.

You're quite right about value vs expense on this ol' beater. I gotta rethink that. wlw

 

@jgenn is spot-on with his assessment. It appears to be an authentic example with some environmental damage that cased pitting. Personally, I would recommend against spending money to get it certified.