1807 Draped Bust Half Cent Counterfeit? General Counterfeit Identification Techniques

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by binxterdoodles, Aug 1, 2012.

  1. binxterdoodles

    binxterdoodles New Member

    I am new to this forum and coin collecting in general. Recently I purchased an 1807 draped bust half cent that was in good to very good condition. I had no reason to believe it was counterfeit even though I did buy it on eBay. Seller had 100% feedback and was a US seller that had sold many other coins. However, I've been trying to educate myself in numismatics and I have been reading that there are lots of fake coins floating about. So I purchased a scale. I tested the scale with some pre-1982 Lincoln cents and they were weighing from 3.02 grams to 3.11 grams. So when my Walking Liberty half dollar weighed in at 12.46 grams instead of the stated 12.5 grams on wikicoins.com I wasn't too concerned as it makes sense that coins would become slightly less heavy with wear. I decided to weigh my 1807 draped bust half cent and was surprised to see it register 5.59 grams. Wikicoins.com states that this coin should have a weight of 5.44 grams http://www.wikicoins.com/Draped_Bust_Half_Cent. This concerned me since all other coins were weighing at specification or slightly lower. Is it possible the older coins don't have the precision of the newer ones and there might be a broader range of weight? Is this possibly a fake? It's not a key year and the diameter is correct. The weight is just on the high side. Also the coin isn't in an amazingly, too-good-to-be-true condition. It's worn and the wear looks authentic, not forced. All markings match photos in my coin book. Any suggestions or wisdom is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
     
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  3. beef1020

    beef1020 Junior Member

    I think that works out to about a 2.5% difference in weight, which I am inclined to believe is not different enough to worry about. Can you take a picture of the coin, it would be more helpful?
     
  4. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Actually the opposite is true. The coins of yesteryear had a much tighter tolerance when it came to weight than modern coins do, particularly gold and silver coins. With copper coins however, they were less concerned with the weight being precisely accurate.

    Yes it is possible it is a fake as being overweight is a common diagnostic for fakes. But it is also possible it is genuine. It is also possible that your scale is off. Your mention of the copper cents being off by a tenth of a gram kind of leans towards that being possible as they should not be. Do you have a calibration weight for the scale ?
     
  5. binxterdoodles

    binxterdoodles New Member

    Here are pics
    coin obverse.jpg coin reverse.jpg
     
  6. binxterdoodles

    binxterdoodles New Member

    Yes, the scale with calibration weights and has a maximum weight of 200g. I have a 200g calibration weight, a 100g calibration weight and a 5g calibration weight. All read accurately after successfully completing the scale calibration. Also the newer zinc Lincoln cents are reading at 2.5g exactly. Some were slightly less (like 2.46g) but the scale reads consistently for the same coins. So a zinc cent that was reading at 2.46g will still read at 2.46g after rebooting the scale. At most the scale will differ 0.01 grams depending on whether or not the coin is placed directly in the center of the scale. The 1807 Draped Bust Half Cent will consistently read 5.59g or 5.60g
     
  7. Doug21

    Doug21 Coin Hoarder

    looks real to me
     
  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Fair enough binxter. That's the problem with the weight of early copper though, it's merely an indicator and not a confirmation. But there are some members on this forum that know know enough about early copper that they can probably give you a pretty good indication now that you have pics.
     
  9. beef1020

    beef1020 Junior Member

    Looks real to me. There is only one variety for 1807 and while I don't have the half cent attribution guides I compared your coin to one from auction and it looks good. The position of LIBERTY in relation to the hair matches, the leaf position in relation to the letters match on the reverse. The lack of a berry next to the E in ONE is correct. Like I said, I am not exactly sure what the specific attribution points are for this variety, but all the general ones I see look good.

    As Doug points out, they were very accurate with the gold and silver coins, and less so with copper. Most of the fakes I have seen and heard about tend to be overweight in the area of 10% or more, so if your half cent weighed 5.9 grams I would be suspicious that it was a fake. I have a link to an auction below, that auction also has a couple draped bust half cents in the weight rang of 86 grains or about 5.57 grams, like the 1804 C-11, so the weight of your coin is not unheard of at all.

    Here is a link to the 1807 i was comparing yours too:

    http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=65&lot=62

    Edit: After all that I forgot to say nice coin! Looks like pretty good detail and a decent surface.
     
  10. binxterdoodles

    binxterdoodles New Member

    Thanks to everyone for the help. I've only been on the forum for a day and am amazed at how much I've learned and how friendly the members are
     
  11. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Variety attribution matches and strike characteristics for 1807 match. While there was no official tolerance specification in 1807 when they later did specify an official standard for the half cent it was 5.44 grams +/- .22 grams. If that same standard was applied to the 1807 then the weight range would be from 5.22 grams to 5.66 grams which would put your coin within tolerance.
     
  12. binxterdoodles

    binxterdoodles New Member

    Where can you find the official tolerances posted by the US Mint?
     
  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    For current coins you can find it on the mint web site. For older coins you have to refer to specialty books, or a book called the Coin Digest or Coin Alamanac, something like that. Conder can tell you the title for sure, seems I never can remember :(
     
  14. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Coin World Almanac
     
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

  16. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    One additional point I didn't see mentioned...through 1808, spoiled cents and cent planchets were often rolled and recut to produce half cent planchets. I wouldn't be surprised to find some slightly over-weight, genuine half cents through 1808.
     
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