1800 Draped Bust Silver Dollar grading question

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by DoubleDiamond, Mar 10, 2021.

  1. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    In the future, I will tell you what you meant by a post. if you don't mind me doing so, that is.
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I see nothing that screams fake. This coin is out of my area to be sure. It looks like it's has an old cleaning, maybe a dip, from a long time ago. The obverse looks slightly off to the right side but that's normal on older coins.
    This is probably an XF but it could make AU. There are just to many varieties of this coin and I'm not a variety person.
     
    DoubleDiamond likes this.
  4. tommyc03

    tommyc03 Senior Member

    Interesting reply Potty. How did you come up with a figure of 99.99 % of auctions are legitimate? (likely real) And what diagnostics are you using to agree with the grade assumptions given so far. If you are so sure of those grades should I assume you have had some in depth experiance with this series of dollars? Sorry to say though, my eyes are normal sized.
     
  5. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Just to show how grading can work on early dollars, this 1796 dollar is in an NGC AU-50 holder. It was graded about 20 years ago.

    1796DollarO.JPG 1796DollarR.JPG
     
    DoubleDiamond and tommyc03 like this.
  6. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    And here is my 1798 Heraldic Eagle dollar graded PCGS VF-30. I see no reason to deviate from my initial evaluation of EF-45 on the OP's coin. If we assume that PCGS would grade the OP's coin by its own Photograde standards, then a PCGS grade of 45 is to be expected. Of course, we all realize there is some variability from TPG to TPG and even within the same TPG over time. That's why I said I could see it getting into a 50 holder. 55 is a step too far for me, though.

    DSC_0431-tile-Print Copy.jpg
     
    DoubleDiamond and tommyc03 like this.
  7. manny9655

    manny9655 Well-Known Member

    I think it's fake. The lettering, especially the L in Liberty, looks wrong. On a real one, the bottom stroke of the L is straight. On the OP's coin, it has a little curve in it. Unless it's a die variety I don't know of, I've never seen the L look like that on Draped Bust coins of any kind.
     
    DoubleDiamond likes this.
  8. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    When I was dealer, I once had straight graded 1798 dollar on consignment that had light graffiti in the field. Never underestimate the ability of the TPG's to miss something.
     
    DoubleDiamond likes this.
  9. tommyc03

    tommyc03 Senior Member

    @johnmilton @Publius2 You guys are the best. Please do not think I am questioning either of you.
     
    DoubleDiamond and johnmilton like this.
  10. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    Not at all. The purpose of these debates, to me, is to arrive at some facts if it is possible. As long as we stick to the coins, then I am fine with disagreement.
     
    tommyc03 and DoubleDiamond like this.
  11. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    I took a look at some slabbed 1800 BB-193's in Heritage's auction archives and picked one out that is slabbed PCGS EF-45 (they all look the same with regard to the L). I have attached full-size obverses of the OP coin (first photo) and the Heritage coin (second photo).

    Then below that are blow-ups of the L area on the OP's coin (third photo) and Heritage coin (fourth photo). Except for what be a little bit of PMD on the bottom leg of the L on the OP's coin, they look the same to me.

    Of course, I would feel more comfortable with better photos and especially with the coin in hand.
    Draped Bust 1.jpg Heritage.jpg Draped Bust 1-Cropped L.jpg Heritage-Cropped L.jpg
     
  12. techwriter

    techwriter Supporter! Supporter

    I thought this was a grading question thread? In my opinion the coin is not a "64" and if it comes back as such I'll the first to apologize PROFUSELY.
     
  13. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    It didn't take me long to find a similar one on Heritage. That's about all I can contribute to this... Edit - it's a NGC XF45.
    https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-doll.../1326-4217.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515
    1800$1obv.jpg
     
  14. charley

    charley Well-Known Member


    I sort of wish you had used the same level of observation when deciphering what I mean when I post, because all you would have had to do is look at my post directly before your snarky "huh" post.
    That is OK, though. We all goof now and then. Usually an apology helps.
    From your fingers to Mr. John's eyes....
     
  15. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Do you have any thoughts of a possible repair, based strictly on the OP photos? Of course the coin is not in hand to view, to be sure. I understand that. You are more comfortable and more able to grade from photos than I am. That is the reason I am interested in your opinion.
     
  16. manny9655

    manny9655 Well-Known Member

  17. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    I was being a little sarcastic about you. I wasn't talking about auctions I was saying how after looking at it again it looks real why not %100 because its not certified but even a lot of old certified coins like these are fake.I said I agree with the grades because I trust those members opinions I am not expert on these coins myself.
     
    DoubleDiamond likes this.
  18. DoubleDiamond

    DoubleDiamond Member

    [QUOTE="Publius2, post: 6653906, member:

    Thank you Publius for taking the time to reply and share your thoughts on this coin and its variety. The information given is very much appreciated. It's actually mind boggling what you and the other members know. Top class.

    Cheers for also for helping to clear up the mystery surrounding its grading potential, I'll take that! A huge thank you also to the other guys that weighed in with valuable information about it too.

    Based on the information given I think that I paid a reasonable price for the coin which was probably the thin edge of the wedge for an EF coin of the same year. I think it was a good deal, but the proof of the pudding will be what the grading company think as they have the final say. NGC though, of course.
    Thanks everyone, and you gotta love Forrest Gump. Run Forrest run! Classic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2021
  19. DoubleDiamond

    DoubleDiamond Member

    Many thanks John, Top notch.
     
  20. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Well, @charley, I can put you on “ignore” so that I won’t offend you again. I try to give you free advice, you want apologies. I have never seen a Forest Gump run remark given in any context other than avoid the deal.
     
    charley likes this.
  21. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    I think it would be best if you do place me on ignore.
    Free advice? My Goodness. I pass.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page