1798 Large Cent altered into 1799?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by C-B-D, May 22, 2019.

  1. C-B-D

    C-B-D U.S. Type Coins or death!

    What do ya think?
    20190522_202001.jpg 20190522_202019.jpg 20190522_202032.jpg
     
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  3. WildWest

    WildWest Obsessive Compulsive Disarry

    I don’t see how they could turn an 8 into that 9 but I’m far from an expert!
     
  4. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody...

    Yup. Altered S-187. You can see where they wore away the massive obverse die break. The die breaks and strike weakness on the reverse also match up.

    This alteration was expertly done, but not quite good enough. Since the die break between the 0 and A on the reverse was not a characteristic of S-189 (1799), I looked for a match among the 1798s. Turns out it was the first one I checked.
     
  5. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    The eyehole in the 2nd 9 is too small.
    But I would have been fooled.
    It's just a guess but when I looked at a 1799 the holes in the 9 were both
    the same size. And when I looked at a 1798 the hole in the 8 was smaller than the 9.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  6. Hookman

    Hookman Well-Known Member

    So obviously the 1799 is more valuable than the 1798, and probably a lot or they wouldn't have bothered to do this.
    What's the value difference?

    I don't know large cents.
     
  7. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random nobody...

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  8. Eduard

    Eduard Supporter**

    I don't like it. It purports to be an an S-189 Normal date.
    Yet, there are some anomalies on the reverse, specifically, and you have to look closely, on some of the berries right and left at the top of the wreath.

    Here is the reverse of S-189: HA Archives.

    Look and compare at the berry above O(N), and right of (N)T. I see some differences.
    (Either that, or jet-lag after an 11 hours flight across the ocean and a 3 hour drive across Florida has got me cross-wired....).

    1799 s-189 normal date rev.jpg
     
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  9. C-B-D

    C-B-D U.S. Type Coins or death!

    I thought just by the appearance, not having looked at Sheldon numbers, that the second 9 was "off." The coin is in a lot of large cents and half cents on eBay, listed as a 1798 in the title with no other information. I'm guessing the seller listed it as a 1798 because he knew it was altered, and either 1. Didn't want it removed by eBay. And or 2. Hope's that buyers assume he made a listing mistake and he'll score big time.
     
  10. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    As soon as I looked at the reverse I saw the "drooping" berry left and above the O in ONE. 1798 S-187 is the only rev from this hub that has that. (about half of the 1798's and all the 99's and 1800's used the same reverse hub, but they didn't have enough power to bring it up completely and the often had to add the berries and/or stems by hand. S-187 is the only one that has the berry going down like that.

    Once I saw that I saw on the obverse the arc die crack from the rim through T the base of Y and finally to the rim around 3:00.
     
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  11. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    It's actually a rather nicely done piece. I wouldn't mind owning it.
     
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  12. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    Interesting thread and good catch, John.
     
  13. Mainebill

    Mainebill Wild Bill

    Good alteration of the date though not perfect. Problem is thesheldon die states don’t lie
     
  14. Hookman

    Hookman Well-Known Member

    "I see" said the blind man, and so do I. Thanks for the info.
     
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