1796 Liberty Cap Cent - real/fake? value?

Discussion in 'What's it Worth' started by Clawcoins, Jun 26, 2017.

  1. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    Asking for some input on these pics if it's an obvious fake, and if not then potential value. Looking at buying it.
    Thanks

    1796-1.jpg
    1796-2.jpg

    I'm a bit leery that the date seems clean but the rest if suffering from environmental damage.
     
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  3. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    How much is it selling for?
     
  4. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    auction, starting at $200
     
  5. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    I would be suspicious of authenticity.
     
  6. CoinBreaux

    CoinBreaux Well-Known Member

    I find it odd that the reverse has so much damage, yet the obverse is almost untouched.
     
  7. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    What could be a $500-$1000 coin should be authenticated by a major grading service and not sold raw. I don't know enough about early large cents, but these are often faked.
     
  8. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    That's what I was thinking of the obverse being in much better shape than the reverse. And also the denticles being uneven in width at various parts around the rim looks odd too though I see those inconsistencies in pictures I've reviewed from PCGS.

    Thanks, I think I'll pass.
     
  9. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    Here is one that has been verified. Compare to your photos to look for similarities/ differences. Even if you are not interested in the auction coin, it doesn't hurt to study up. The variety could be different.
    a3f7b_1796_1C_Liberty_Cap_NGC_AU55BN_CAC_3397002_l.jpg
     
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  10. Moekeever

    Moekeever Well-Known Member

    It appears to me to be S-81. As for the corrosion, I've seen much worse on coins found under houses that the only part on the coin legible was the date. That said, I would not purchase this coin at that price. Fairly common variety with too much damage.
     
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  11. jessash1976

    jessash1976 Coin knowledgeable

    The pitting gives it away. Fake. Also I think the head is to big for the coin. It almost looks like it should be a half cent. Of the pics I have seen of this year, the L in Liberty is not that close to the cap.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  12. jessash1976

    jessash1976 Coin knowledgeable

    And the reverse photo looks like it has been touched up on the bottom left
     
  13. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    On early copper? Just out of curiosity, exactly what about this pitting do you believe is such a dead giveaway?


    There are a few gentlemen here who've shown themselves to be very knowledgeable in this area, so perhaps one will stop in to confirm moekeever's attribution. @Marshall
     
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  14. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    I have been in a few authentication seminars over the years and saw this coin as soon as it was posted. My first reaction was to post that I needed a more magnified image. Then, I thought better of it as IMO, 98% of both the professional TPGS authenticators and many EAC members (who know more about these coins than I ever will) viewing this image would possibly pass on an opinion. This is either genuine or one of the "state-of-the-art fakes. :wacky: I just added nothing.


    Michael K, posted: "I would be suspicious of authenticity."

    Care to step up to the plate and tell us why?

    CoinBreaux, posted: "I find it odd that the reverse has so much damage, yet the obverse is almost untouched."

    Damage happens, one side can be perfect while the other has damage. What is more common on these coins is one side G to VG and the other side (usually the reverse) almost smooth.

    Michael K, posted: "Here is one that has been verified. Compare to your photos to look for similarities/ differences. Even if you are not interested in the auction coin, it doesn't hurt to study up. The variety could be different."

    Since dies for these coins are different, as you pointed out, unless you find the exact variety to image, a different variety is not helpful.

    jessash1976, posted: "The pitting gives it away. Fake."

    The pitting is corrosion. Calling the coin based on that is, well...er, not a good reason. :angelic:

    "Also I think the head is to big for the coin. It almost looks like it should be a half cent. Of the pics I have seen of this year, the L in Liberty is not that close to the cap."

    Good eye! The things you point out are due to the variety.
     
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  15. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    Variety is only a slight difference.
    Why do you always have to be a complete edited
    Is that stepping up enough for you?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2017
  16. chromerunner

    chromerunner ******

    Insider likes this.
  17. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    I have learned not to let personal attacks bother me so I'll :angelic: just reply:

    Michael K, posted: "I would be suspicious of authenticity."

    I :bucktooth: asked why you think so? Guess that makes me a ...

    Michael K, posted: "Variety is only a slight difference."

    IMO, not so. There are eleven varieties of this date. They look different. :jawdrop: Guess posting that also makes me a ...

    Michel K, posted: "Why do you always have to be a complete edited
    Is that stepping up enough for you?"

    NO! I asked you a specific question about your :yack::yack: suspicions. While All of us posting are trying to be helpful, I'm sorry you feel that way about someone who disagreed with your posts and hoped for more. :yawn:

    PS I've copied the bag for my personal use as that (IMO) was worthwhile. :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2017
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  18. Moekeever

    Moekeever Well-Known Member

    Sorry if I created this conflict. I was trying to be helpful and learn at the same time. I'm not an expert and I use various reference books to try and determine variety. I said S-81 as the obverse is #1 and the reverse I think A. What I can see of the fraction bar is curved up a little and the "T" in United is slightly lower than I and E.
     
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  19. Moekeever

    Moekeever Well-Known Member

  20. SorenCoins

    SorenCoins Well-Known Member

    Hey sorry to get off topic but I want to begin collecting early coppers, is there a place where Sheldon varieties are listed? Also what about the Noyes die state varites? Where are those listed. Oh and also the Rick Snow varieties. Alright, sorry to get off topic my bad.
     
  21. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    This looks like the S-87 to me and if it is a fake, it is the best one I've ever seen.

    The 6 is far too low for the S-81 and while similar, the S-87 Reverse is also a better match with the triplet under the right upright of U being most diagnostic.

    1796 3                3 S-84, S-85, S-86, S-87.jpg
    1796 11              E S-87, S-88, S-89.jpg
     
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