1794 Conder Token, Somerset, Bath DH 26, UNC

Larry,

Your coins and photography are stunning...I'm really jealous!! I've been pretty busy with school and work lately and just don't have the time to do everything I would like to do. Unfortunately, my numismatography is on the back burner for now. I really appreciate your kind offer of help and plan to take you up on it as soon I can give it the attention it requires.

 

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Just came back from NGC.....

 

This conder is interesting because it pre-dates pistrucci's design for the sovereign, which first came out in 1817. I wonder if BP got his idea from this token?

 

Looks like a beautiful token. Very nice Hiho!

 

Spectacular!!:thumb:

 

Very Nice :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

Nice tokens everyone!
Here is a Lancashire 64 Liverpool Halfpenny. I've been searching for a nice example for a long time.

 

Conder collectors...let's keep this thread going. Here's another photo.

 

Can anyone here tell me why NGC thinks this was cleaned, because I just don't see it...



No matter, now that I have seen Larry Moran's Portsea that's the one I want for my collection.

 

Your search was well worth it as that is a beautiful token.

 

If you sent thur Ngc's consideration service and pay 2 fees they would not detailed as they did
But it still a gem token !

 

Puzzled

I'm still on my first coffee but couldn't help be puzzled by a couple of HiHo's tokens.
From the earlier images of Middlesex 414, I would have expected a higher grade than 63 (but images can conceal a lot).
After looking at hundreds of Goldberg conders in grades 64 and up which often looked no better than this token,
I'd be interested in what there is about the token in hand that merits the grade. Hairlines, minor rim bump, what?
And it would be nice if the slab said Midd 414!

On the Portsea, I might speculate that the bright spot in the center of the reverse was scoured down to remove a spot or hit.
I like the design and token nevertheless.

 

Amen, yarm. I don't have many Conders and only a few slabbed. The others are "worthy" in that they are in fantastic condition, but I'm not 100% sold on the need to do so. Borrowing the perspective of a well known Conder dealer, he has no confidence in NGC's ability, knowledge and experience to properly evaluate Conder token surfaces/condition. From the pics that HiHo has shown here and on the NGC board of his 414, I too am surprised at the 63. It seems nicer than the grade designated.

 

Bayly's Museum Halfpenny

That's a nice example of the Bayly's token, Catbert. : )

I got my uncirculated Middlesex 860 from a dealer in Minnesota, just a few months back.

I watched them for years on ebay, and even some nice AU's sold for more than $300. They are very popular. : )

 

Larry - Yours is very nice and beautifully detailed. What I find interesting is that yours is missing the typical dot or puncture right over top of the frog and under the tree (snake side). Most Bayly's I've seen have this bizarre "dot" and yours if the first I've seen without it. Most unusual!

 

Good comments Yarm, and I too wondered why NGC called my Middlesex 414 a Middlesex 5. I wonder about them sometimes. :headbang:

And I believe you hit the nail on the head re: the Portsea. Someone cleaned some goo from the reverse.

Lest you all think I limit myself to mint state Conder tokens here are two circulated Pidcock's farthings that I just found.....




I actually prefer the bashed one, which came from Scotland! :thumb:

 

A gem too!!!!

 

I found the 'spot' on mine, too, full of mint luster

Catbert...

When you mentioned the 'spot,' which had never really attracted my close attention, I looked in Dalton & Hamer and could not see the same spot in the plate photo. So I enlarged my image and I can see it. In the photo of mine that you referred to, the spot is there, but the lighting has obscured it somewhat. If you look carefully, you'll see that the left side of the spot is dark, the right side is brighter, but it seems unclear to me. Another problem is that saving as a jpg for internet publication/posting always cost a bit in resolution. Given today's technology, it's unavoidable. I wish folks could see the images as they appear on my computer. They look great when printed. I often send a bunch of images to snapfish for their 4x6 glossy prints at 9¢ each. : )

So, I took some more photos this morning, early, using diffused lighting and here are the results. In this smaller size, it appears somewhat dim, but in full size of about 5000 pixels wide it appears much brighter, and I was really setting it up for full sized view on other sites where small image can be expanded.

Photos can differ greatly when lighting is changed, and even color balance can affect perceptions. Actually, contrast, color balance and saturation can also affect perceived focus.









Your 'spot' seems to be somewhat larger than on my token. My spot is full of mint luster. Perhaps I am being fooled by your image. They are both great tokens, no doubt. My Middlesex DH 253 is one of the cornerstones of my collection.

By the way, if that is a frog, Then I would believe the tree is full of frogs. ; )

I think it's just part of the tree, a stubby branch and a bunch of leaves. I've not heard anybody mention a frog before and it is not included in D&H's description. Have you heard others refer to it as a frog, or perhaps read it in a reference?

 

I like both of your Pidcock tokens, hiho. : ) Very nice.

It looks like the token from Scotland spent some time in the ground, and perhaps the slight damage is from a cultivator or shovel. No matter, while not perfect it is a nice piece, and a curiosity. The obverse and its elephant seem almost unaffected except for some slight porosity/granularity, caused by the environment. ; )

Rim clips are not as common on Conder Tokens as on U.S Civil War Tokens , and that's a fact. Another curiosity. ; )

The first token is on the cusp, and I believe it may grade VF in the UK and EF in the U.S. If I were to grade it with my antiquated views, I'd call it EF/VF. Most ebay sellers would list it as EF here, I believe. : )

BTW, I do not feel that the token from Scotland came out of the ground looking just as it does today. ; )