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1776 Spanish Colony 8 Reales - Which One Used by US Colonists?
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<p>[QUOTE="Bardolph, post: 3134158, member: 96174"]I would just like to make a few remarks on some of the preceding posts. </p><p><br /></p><p>On the question of the colonial and peninsular mints, I have in front of me the annual production figures of the Madrid mint from its founding in 1614 up until the present day. As you can see, the production of gold coinage in the 17th was rather small, so there was no need for the colonial mints to engage in large volume production – there was plenty of capacity, not only in Madrid but also in Seville and the other peninsular mints. </p><p><br /></p><p>MADRID Production of gold coinage by weight </p><p>17th Century: total kilos for the century = 6262 kgs. Best Year: 1676, 418 kgs </p><p><br /></p><p>18th Century total Kilos 1,204,327; Best year 1789, 10,383 kgs </p><p><br /></p><p>Far from slowing down, in the second half of the 17th Century the production of gold and silver increased dramatically. With so much bullion around, the Madrid mint gave up copper coinage for good in 1730 and it became obvious that the colonial mints would have to ease the strain on the home mints by shipping coinage instead of raw silver and gold... When Nuestra Senora de Atocha sank off the Florida coast in 1622 it carried 24 tonnes of silver in ingots and a small amount of coinage. When the frigate Nuestra Señora de Las Mercedes was sunk by the British in 1804 off the coast of Spain, she carried 17 tonnes of treasure - 580,000 silver coins, mainly 8 and 4 and only 212 gold coins. 91% of the coins were from the Lima mint, followed by 8% from Potosi and very small amounts from Popayan, Mexico and Santiago de Chile. I can find no reference to gold or silver ingots. And of course these colonially produced coins circulated freely throughout Spain and the rest of the world. Spanish 8 reales were legal tender in Canada right up to the middle of the 19th Century. </p><p><br /></p><p>The comment made earlier that the coinage of S. American mints was not allowed to circulate in Spain is totally incorrect, this was never the case. In the early stages of the Spanish overseas possessions, the reasons for establishing a mint was less for producing coins and more for demonstrating Spanish sovereignty over the conquered territories. Spanish coins,wherever they were produced, circulated freely, obvously so- what was Spain to do in when the colonial mints sent coin to the motherland? Moreover Spanish gold and silver was the international currency for over 200 years, so that it is be no surprise to find Spanish coins turning up all over the world.</p><p><br /></p><p> As I have pointed out ,in the initial stages of the colonial mints, their most important role wasa political one . For this reason, in the 15th and part of the 16th centuries silver and gold were shipped to Spain as bullion, in ingots. Small amounts of coinage were produced for local usage, but there was certainly no ban on its use elsewhere. What may have give rise to this confusion is that settlement of international trade, when not paid for in gold, was paid only in 4 and 8 reales. In 1707, the Pragmatica of Felipe V introduced the notion of Moneda Nacional (4 and 8reales with a silver content 0f 0.9166) and Moneda Provincial, for internal use within Spain (1/2, 1 and 2 reales) with a silver content of 0.8333).</p><p><br /></p><p> Finally, why are there so few coins to be found? Because at regular intervals (e.g. 1660-64, 1728, 1772, 1786, 1808 etc) the Spanish crown collected as much old silver as possible to melt it down and reissue, either to show the face of the new king, or to take out of circulation badly damaged -underweight coins – and reissue new coins with a lower silver content. Once the former Spanish possession achieved independence, they also melted down Spanish coins and replaced them with their own coinage. The last mints to produce Spanish coins closed in the[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Bardolph, post: 3134158, member: 96174"]I would just like to make a few remarks on some of the preceding posts. On the question of the colonial and peninsular mints, I have in front of me the annual production figures of the Madrid mint from its founding in 1614 up until the present day. As you can see, the production of gold coinage in the 17th was rather small, so there was no need for the colonial mints to engage in large volume production – there was plenty of capacity, not only in Madrid but also in Seville and the other peninsular mints. MADRID Production of gold coinage by weight 17th Century: total kilos for the century = 6262 kgs. Best Year: 1676, 418 kgs 18th Century total Kilos 1,204,327; Best year 1789, 10,383 kgs Far from slowing down, in the second half of the 17th Century the production of gold and silver increased dramatically. With so much bullion around, the Madrid mint gave up copper coinage for good in 1730 and it became obvious that the colonial mints would have to ease the strain on the home mints by shipping coinage instead of raw silver and gold... When Nuestra Senora de Atocha sank off the Florida coast in 1622 it carried 24 tonnes of silver in ingots and a small amount of coinage. When the frigate Nuestra Señora de Las Mercedes was sunk by the British in 1804 off the coast of Spain, she carried 17 tonnes of treasure - 580,000 silver coins, mainly 8 and 4 and only 212 gold coins. 91% of the coins were from the Lima mint, followed by 8% from Potosi and very small amounts from Popayan, Mexico and Santiago de Chile. I can find no reference to gold or silver ingots. And of course these colonially produced coins circulated freely throughout Spain and the rest of the world. Spanish 8 reales were legal tender in Canada right up to the middle of the 19th Century. The comment made earlier that the coinage of S. American mints was not allowed to circulate in Spain is totally incorrect, this was never the case. In the early stages of the Spanish overseas possessions, the reasons for establishing a mint was less for producing coins and more for demonstrating Spanish sovereignty over the conquered territories. Spanish coins,wherever they were produced, circulated freely, obvously so- what was Spain to do in when the colonial mints sent coin to the motherland? Moreover Spanish gold and silver was the international currency for over 200 years, so that it is be no surprise to find Spanish coins turning up all over the world. As I have pointed out ,in the initial stages of the colonial mints, their most important role wasa political one . For this reason, in the 15th and part of the 16th centuries silver and gold were shipped to Spain as bullion, in ingots. Small amounts of coinage were produced for local usage, but there was certainly no ban on its use elsewhere. What may have give rise to this confusion is that settlement of international trade, when not paid for in gold, was paid only in 4 and 8 reales. In 1707, the Pragmatica of Felipe V introduced the notion of Moneda Nacional (4 and 8reales with a silver content 0f 0.9166) and Moneda Provincial, for internal use within Spain (1/2, 1 and 2 reales) with a silver content of 0.8333). Finally, why are there so few coins to be found? Because at regular intervals (e.g. 1660-64, 1728, 1772, 1786, 1808 etc) the Spanish crown collected as much old silver as possible to melt it down and reissue, either to show the face of the new king, or to take out of circulation badly damaged -underweight coins – and reissue new coins with a lower silver content. Once the former Spanish possession achieved independence, they also melted down Spanish coins and replaced them with their own coinage. The last mints to produce Spanish coins closed in the[/QUOTE]
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