Howdy fellow coin peeps, :thumb: No French coins were ever minted exclusively for circulation in French Canada (called Nouvelle France, that is, New France) or Louisiana. However, some issues were designated for general circulation in the French New World possessions, including Canada and possessions in the Caribbean. The first New World colonial issues were "recycled" old douzain coins, that is coins of 12 deniers or one sol. These hammered coins were composed of billon (an alloy of silver and copper) and consisted of both regal issues and regional coinage issued by local ecclesiastical or feudal lords. According to an edict of June,1640, these older worn coins were authorized to be counterstamped with a punch displaying a fleur-de-lys within a beaded oval. Often when the coins were counterstamped the force of the impact bowed the coins so that they are often somewhat concave on the counterstamped side and convex of the other side. Once the coins were counterstamped they were sent to the colonies. Breen stated that in an edict of November 24, 1672 these coins were mentioned as circulating in Canada at 20 deniers, however their value fluctuated over time. Additionally, Breen (1976, p. 47) suggests these coins may have been the "Black Doggs" mentioned in the Connecticut law of 1721. By an edict of February 19, 1670 coins of two, five and fifteen sols produced at the Paris mint were authorized for the Compagnie des Indes Occidentales en Ameriques to circulate in Nouvelle France. The silver five and fifteen sols were minted at Paris in 1670 and carry the mintmark A. The obverse of these coins depicts king Louis XIV on the obverse with the crowned royal shield on the reverse. Vlack stated there were 200,000 of the 5 sol coins and 40,000 of the 15 sol coins sent to Canada. Although a copper two denier coin called a "double" was authorized it did not go into production; only one example is extant. This coin displays a crowned L on the obverse and a legend on the reverse. By an edict of October 1692 Louis XIV ordered older billon coinage still in circulation to be restruck with new designs and reissued as sous of 15 deniers. Some of this coinage was counterstamped and sent to Nouvelle France where they circulated at fluctuating values. Coins dated 1692-1697 were included in this grouping and can be positively assigned to this second counterstamped group. Here's an example of the last coinage spoken about and one of my newest acquisitions for my Colonial Collection. Ribbit Ps: The above write-up is by Louis Jordan, used with his permission, and can be seen here (with noted references thereto): http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoinIntros/VA-halfd.intro.html The Notre Dame collection and website is very educational and loaded with colonial coinage information. :thumb:
I have added a few more to my collection. The first, is a 1593 Douzain with a lily counterstamp and was discussed earlier in the write-up by Louis Jordan, from Notre Dame (OP article).
The second new addition is a 1739 Sou Marqué (aka: Double Sol) which is also talked about in the article that was in the OP (link).
My third newest addition is two coins I bought together and they are counterstamped 4 & 8 Marivedas (1652 & 1641 respectively), which I am told by Louis, that ones similar to these were recovered in Newfoundland, at Ferryland, in an archeological dig. The actual date of either coin is currently unknown but the counterstamp was an obverse & reverse counterstamp with the date of the counterstamping on one side and denomination on the other, so the coins are actually older than the counterstamped date.
My fourth & fifth newest additions are two 1767 Sol de 12 Deniers (valued at 9 Deniers), one with a RF counterstamp and one without. The "RF" stands for République Française and the non-counterstamped version is more scarce than the one with the counterstamp, since all were earmarked to have the counterstamp added and only a small portion managed to escape the punch (Breen says 98% were countermarked and 2% weren't). http://www.coinfacts.com/colonial_coins/french_colonies/1767_sous/1767_french_colonies_sou.htm http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoinText/French.4.html Ribbit
Toad: Very nice pieces, since most of us only see these when we are reading the Red Book, why not give us some idea of the values? Thanks!
Except for the OP coin, I don't have a clue. I know they are worth quite a bit more than I paid but I don't know their actual value. The OP coin is valued between $150-$250 US at auction (someone told me this right after I acquired it) but if they are in the Redbook, don't they have prices in there also? Maybe someone will let both of us know the values of each of these. :thumb: I wouldn't mind knowing. Ribbit Ps: The only book in my arsenal is Breen's Encyclopedia and even with that, I'm still trying to figure out how to tell the difference between a Sol & Double Sol (1738/1748 -1738/1764) just by the picture. :kewl: Pps: Here is a 1767 Sol de 12 Deniers that has the RF countermark and is currently for sale on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/1767-FRENCH-COLONIES-SOU-WITH-RF-COUNTERSTAMP-CHOICE-EF_W0QQitemZ180170361402QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116 The seller mentions it's on page 51 of the 2007 Redbook and valued at $450.00. Their coin is close to the same condition as mine but mine is unique in that the Paris mintmark is still visible in the "squished" area ("A") and that's rare to find, plus, the RF counterpunch is centered better on mine, which gives it better eye appeal. So mine would be worth more than theirs. And here's another one in really nice shape and less than the one above (if anyone's in the market): http://cgi.ebay.fr/FRENCH-COLONIES-...goryZ528QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem I really got lucky being able to get mine at the price I got it for. I bid (snipe bid) almost triple what it sold for. :whistle: Ppps: Here's a 1739 Double Sol/Sou Marqué that's for sale on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.fr/LOUIS-XV-DOUBLE-SOL-SOU-MARQUE-1739-N-CANADA-LOUISIANA_W0QQitemZ260225200919QQihZ016QQcategoryZ539QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 I believe mine is in better condition but mine has had the silver wash polished off, which can be easily fixed, and hers is a Montpellier mint (N) and mine is a Paris mint (A) but this should still provide a round-about idea for what it's worth, even though hers is somewhat underpriced due to it's rarity. And here is what I believe to be a 1616 Douzain with a lily countermark: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330242429707&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=014 It went really high, yet seconds before close it was at $30 and I went to snipe it at $50 and had my lunch handed to me in the dirt. Ribbit-Ribbit-Ribbit
Those are the best coins to collect-- the ones that no one else is currently searching for, and you can get some great deals. (the ones that are not 'hot') Good luck. I started collecting Barbers when I could get them for 'junk silver' prices, and even then I was the only buyer. I even got some better dates at the time.
I agree with that! However, my problem is most of these came from Ebay France so I've got the French to fight, except for the two Spanish Colonial coins which came from the US and the seller didn't have a clue what the counterstamps were about. The French know a lot more about their coins than I do and the 1767 9/12 Deniers is one I usually get out bid on but the seller of the one I finally got, only listed it for 3 days and they also improperly labeled it so if you did a normal search, it wouldn't show up. I do multiple searches so I can manage to locate the hidden ones and it's those that I usually manage to get well below book value but not always. Last night I bid on a 1935 Swiss Helvetia 20 Franc gold coin and it was poorly listed and the write-up was also poor. The bid was around $50 US at the time I placed my bid and I thought I'd steal it but someone sniped it from me @ close, so I didn't get it but I can guarantee they paid melt for it, since my bid was just below melt. I don't know how much it's actually worth but I did know melt value. Ribbit
Sweet coins! Is it just my eyes or is there PVC on the 15 Deniers? Not sure which is obv or rev but the side pictured second, towards the left as you look at it. If so please deal with it cause it's a beautiful piece that's lasted 315 years, it'd be sad to let it be damaged now. They really are some beautiful coins, thanks a lot for the eye candy and the history lesson
I believe that is a smidgen of green corrosion and that will be dealt with when it arrives and all of these will be sent to NCS, to have them properly "conserved" and the ones that NGS can grade, will be sent to NGS for grading/slabbing and the rest will end up in NCS slabs. These are part of my collection so I want them to be protected from further damage, so they will be around much longer than I. :thumb: Ribbit Ps: I got another coin for my collection today but it will get it's own post.
