Good morning, Here's a recent acquisition if my son's. It is crown size, seems to ring silver and is obviously? a restrike or fake. He loves it regardless of its authenticity. But, I can't seem to find any similar pieces online anywhere though. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks, Mark
Agreed on the fake. Not my expertise, but the rim is a giveaway to me. Numista is a great resource for coins you want to look up. Even if you only know diameter, metal content, year, or something of the like, you can do an advanced search and narrow your coin down. Bookmark this site! https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces46040.html
It's a reproduction of a coin that probably didn't exist. It is meant to be a silver 8 reales of 1663 from Madrid. However, in the history of the Madrid mint (Casa de Moneda de Madrid - Cantidades Acuñadas y Ensayadores, 1614-1868) by Glenn Stephen Murray Fantom, he states that there is no documentary evidence of 8 reales being struck in Madrid in various years, including 1663because of a severe shortage of silver bullion. Furthermore, in his book, Ensayadores - Las Emisiones Monetarias Hispanicas by Josep Pellicer i Bru, the Madrid mintmark and that of the ensaydores (assayers) in Madrid at the time consists of either: (1) an M for Madrid above an S (crossed from bottom left to top right so that the S looks like the figure 8) for Sebastian Gonzalez de Castro with a small square dot above the M and under the S, or (2) the M over a simple S with a round dot above the M and under the S. The four round dots on the obverse of this coin above and below the mint and assayer's mark are simply not found in Madrid coins during the reign of Philip IV. Finally I have found the identical coin on a Spanish website. Click on http://www.fuenterrebollo.com/faqs-numismatica/1663-8reales-madrid.html Look at the top right arm of the letter X of REX - there is exactly the same small round dot, a minor production flaw. during the ri e is
Great information @Bardolph Was the site you linked to attempting to sell the coin for 4.800.000 Peseta? My Spanish is not so good...as in, I took 4 years of German 25 years ago. Also, are you suggesting my coin is the exact coin pictured on that site? Or simply one from the same production run?
Hi, your “coin” is not the exact same one as the one on the internet, but one of a small number of identical modern productions which occasionally turn up. I can’t call them reproductions or copies, because no genuine 1663 Philip IV piece of eight is known to exist. I’ve down some further checking, and after trawling through the back years of a Spanish numismatic forum of which I am a member, http://www.identificacion-numismatica.com , I found yet another identical coin which was being offered for sale in December 2015 in La Coruña in North-West Spain, and which was roundly condemned by all and sundry as modern and false. The Madrid mint in 1663 was still producing hammered coins – this one is a casting. Nobody knows who has made these imitation coins, but he or she has some knowledge of the law as he clearly understood that under Spanish law there can be no successful charge for counterfeiting since there is no known original – and obviously some very good knowledge of 17th Century Spanish coins! As for the price, 4,800,000 pesetas – well, pesetas disappeared in Spain in 2002 with the introduction of the euro, but using the ptas/euro exchange rate and converting into USD, the asking price is a little over $33000. Anybody who paid the price has been well and truly fleeced.
Amazing insight. I love the story about circumventing the counterfeiting laws. Thanks! It's nice to have a story with a piece such as this.
