1575 Elizabeth I sixpence - tooled, or just nicely struck?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by lordmarcovan, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & odd Moderator

    What do you think on this coin? It meets my criteria for eye appeal. Has a decent if not perfect flan. Nice portrait. Nice toning. It's a dated piece, which is one detail I wanted. Sharper detail than I'm used to seeing in the hair and on the queen's clothing.

    That last bit concerns me slightly, though. Was the bodice and/or some of the hair detail possibly "helped"; i.e., enhanced by tooling? I can't tell. What do you think?

    It is up for sale by a very reputable firm (many of you will deduce where), and there is no mention of any kind of tooling in the description, so... ?

    Maybe I'm just overly suspicious...


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  3. TIF

    TIF Always learning. Supporter

    An active auction listing, LM? Why do that? Bidding is already pretty high on the coin.
     
  4. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Ancient collectors have an unwritten rule about never posting a coin up for auction. Of course, since I’ve seen it written in their forums, I think it might be okay to just call it a rule...
     
    TIF, dougsmit and Sallent like this.
  5. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper Supporter

    And it's generally a very good rule too. Let's say I wanted to bid on that coin, now I may not want to do so because I see someone here is interested in it and I don't want to step on his toes. But then he doesn't end up bidding, and I lost out on the coin. But let's say I somehow remember the coin before the auction ends, and decide to bid because he didn't. But now because of the extra attention he called to that coin other people come in at the last second and outbid me...at least that's the way I would perceive it even if it really isn't the case. So it would end up creating needless animosity on the forum.

    These things are better handled by private PM with other members, and not openly in the forum. And that's why that rule is important, regardless of whether it's an official or unofficial rule.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
    Orielensis, TIF, Seattlite86 and 4 others like this.
  6. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    I don't know @Sallent ... seems you are tying yourself into a Gordian Knot with all of the if, when, who, what... why not just follow the guidelines of CoinTalk?
     
    Eduard likes this.
  7. AussieCollector

    AussieCollector Moderator Moderator

    If you can't trust this auction house, who can you trust?

    P.S. - I don't see any issues, but I'm not expert on tooling. But honestly, my statement above says it all
     
  8. Ryro

    Ryro You'll never be lovelier than you are now... Supporter

    Far from expert, my opinion is that it is untooled... btw, What auction did you say it's in?:troll:
     
  9. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper Supporter

    I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time here, just simply stating what the unwritten rule in this forum has always been, and the reason why I think it exists and it's a good idea.
     
  10. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    Fair enough.. I don't participate in these larger auctions so I guess I don't deal with all of these permutations. If I saw a coin on eBay and posted it here and it got scooped that would be on me and it would not upset me.. free market and all..
     
  11. Magnus87

    Magnus87 Supporter! Supporter

    Lord M:
    That is an absolutely delightful coin. Who cares if it’s been tooled! (If it has been, I don’t see it either:).)
     
    lordmarcovan and talerman like this.
  12. Noah Finney

    Noah Finney Morgan / Gold Indian Member

    I don't know if I would take the risk... you never know.
     
  13. Nathan401

    Nathan401 Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Supporter

  14. spirityoda

    spirityoda Coin Junky Supporter

  15. harley bissell

    harley bissell Well-Known Member

    Do you realize that you are hectoring a moderator about unwritten rules?
     
    Sasquatch likes this.
  16. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    They're well aware and Rob is a humble enough man to not get upset about it either. No one has attacked him, just explained why this is frowned upon.
     
    Nicholas Molinari likes this.
  17. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper Supporter

    Yes, and you know why I did it? Because I believe @lordmarcovan is an honest and decent person based on all my interactions with him on this forum, and I am 100% confident that he will take my opinion the way it was meant...as an honest piece of advice from a fellow collector who has the same passion for this hobby as he does, and know that an honest difference of opinion is in no way a personal attack.

    I wouldn't have expressed myself like that in any other forum I'm a member of, but that's because I don't have as much trust and confidence in my fellow members and moderators in those forums as I have here. Cointalk does not operate as an echo chamber or as a mini dictatorship. And that's the reason why I participate so much here, while I've barely cracked 1000 posts in most other forums I'm subscribed.
     
  18. Black Friar

    Black Friar Supporter! Supporter

    "This is my hobby, I do it for fun."
     

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  19. Browns Fan

    Browns Fan Active Member

    Probably not much better in MS
     
  20. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    I have posted pictures of coins being sold at auction before the auction ended, usually to ask if they are authentic. If anyone ever over-bid me, more power to them.
     
    lordmarcovan likes this.
  21. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    The point is not just the effect on the person who breaks the unwritten rule but on the one who is sitting there sweating out the last minute bidding that will take the coin away. That is just part of the game. What we don't like is drawing attention to one specific lot. It is fine to say, 'CNG has some nice coins' but not 'Look at lot xxxx going cheap.' Similarly we don't need posts saying, 'That lot Kentucky is selling looks fake to me'. If we see a fake, it needs to be reported to the seller/auction house. That is why some of us support the rule over on Forvm:
    http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=18946.0
    My favorite line is,"If you disagree with this post, I suggest you read it again until you understand it." Coin Talk is more friendly and we don't have as many experts (real or imagined) but we still need to evaluate the effect of what we do when we yell 'Fake'.
     
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