13th or 14th century Attractive Byzantine copper. Need Reference help.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by BenSi, Oct 2, 2021.

  1. BenSi

    BenSi Supporter! Supporter

    I am stuck on this coin, it is very attractive especially for a later issue.

    I bought the coin at auction and the sellers description was blatenly wrong.

    John III Ducas (Vatatzes). Emperor of Nicaea, 1222-1254. Ae heavy Tetarteron Magnesia mint. The Theotokos standing right, head facing; stars flanking / Half-length bust of John facing, holding labarum and globe surmounted by patriarchal cross
    Weight : 4.45 Diameter: 26.4

    The coin in hand is nicer than my photos, it is very slightly cup shaped, however it could have been struck flat. It does not appear to be flattened. The weight is 4.5 and the size at the widest point is 30mm. ( The flan cracks might be an indication it was a trachy.)

    I have tried, DOC, Bendal Douchev and Lianta, I did not find any match.

    I am hoping someone has run across this issue before.

    Any help is appreciated.

    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
    GH#75, catadc, Curtisimo and 7 others like this.
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  3. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Could be Theodore II Doukas S.2143


    PS: It's a trachy.
    catadc, Curtisimo, robinjojo and 5 others like this.
  4. BenSi

    BenSi Supporter! Supporter

    Thank you Seth! I think you found it. I admire your skill.

    I knew it was not a tetarteron but Bendall said the word stamena was used interchangeable between flat and cup shaped coins for the later years.

    Here is an example of a coin has had its controversies, it is listed as a trachy and a tetarteron. My example is a flat tetarteron. this in mind i did not want to presume.


    John Comnenus -Ducas (1237-1244) Half tetarteron SBCV-2224
  5. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    It's one of my favorite periods.
    +VGO.DVCKS likes this.
  6. BenSi

    BenSi Supporter! Supporter

    And it shows, I was hoping you would be able to answer. Thanks again.
    +VGO.DVCKS likes this.
  7. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander Blame my mother. Supporter

    Ha! I had flagged that coin too, and it took me a long time to come to Seth's conclusion. Here's my Theodore II tetarteron:

    theodore ii tetarteron.jpg
  8. BenSi

    BenSi Supporter! Supporter

    Love that coin @Severus Alexander , here is mine. Dirt intact. It is also a difficult coin to find.
    Theodore II (Magn.) AE Tetarteron SBCV-2145 DOC IV 13

    OBV- Lys. Pellet in Upper and lower field, to either side.

    REV- Full length figure of emperor wearing stemma, divitision and Chalmys; holds in r hand labarum on a long shaft and in l. anexikakia.

    Size 18.57

    Weight 1.9gm

    DOC lists 2 examples sized 17mm and 21mm and only one weight .95gm
  9. catadc

    catadc Well-Known Member

    I also flagged the coin, identified it as a 2143, and one of the best conditions i saw online. I did not bid, just looked to see what it get.
  10. +VGO.DVCKS

    +VGO.DVCKS Well-Known Member

    Very cool stuff, of the kind I could wish I had more than cursory representation. I like how Theodore II took a line from the AR trams of Levon I of Armenia from earlier in the 13th century. Using a fleur de lis, even as he was in the process of liquidating the Frankish Empire.
  11. Black Friar

    Black Friar Well-Known Member

    Photos I had handy lots more will be coming soon I hope; so little time now as we are living through a major home water leak which is consuming a lot of time and energy.

    Attached Files:

    BenSi, +VGO.DVCKS and sand like this.
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