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İ have heard these are fake by some experts through the pictures? Are they really, if so?
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<p>[QUOTE="lrbguy, post: 3703868, member: 88829"]What an interesting conundrum this thread presents! A man claiming to be from Turkey shows us us some pictures of highly questionable Attic Tets and asks us to help him determine if they are authentic or not. When he is told that they do not look good, he asks how we can tell. Of course, knowledgeable collectors know that we have not been given enough information about the material to be able to respond to that, but as he fails to give us the data we need, suspicion about his motivation and character rises and comes to a boil. Soon he is painted as a budding criminal bent on honing his craft guided by our advice, and the group turns away from offering him anything, including hospitality. The emergent attitude seems to be: why risk aiding and abetting a possible criminal in the effort to help out what may or may not be a struggling newby collector. Guilty until proven innocent.</p><p><br /></p><p>Could this be a clash of culture? Since I am imbued with the American approach which presumes innocence until proven guilty, I am going to suggest coming at this in a different way. And it isn't necessary to give up the farm in order to be prudent about all this. Can citizens of Turkey legally collect coins?</p><p><br /></p><p>There is at least one major national numismatic association in Turkey, so collectors do exist, but there is also a piece of legislation that has them bound to modern material. This is law No. 2863: Law on the Conservation of Cultural and Natural Artifacts. This was put forward in 1982 by the National Security Council, adopted and published in their Official Gazette on: 23/07/1983 number: 18113<b>, </b> and has not been amended since.</p><p>Read it for yourselves: <a href="https://kvmgm.ktb.gov.tr/TR-43249/law-on-the-conservation-of-cultural-and-natural-propert-.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://kvmgm.ktb.gov.tr/TR-43249/law-on-the-conservation-of-cultural-and-natural-propert-.html" rel="nofollow">https://kvmgm.ktb.gov.tr/TR-43249/law-on-the-conservation-of-cultural-and-natural-propert-.html</a></p><p><br /></p><p>This law, which was intended to preserve cultural heritage, has resulted in the melting of untold numbers of Ottoman silver coins which can no longer be collected and so are being reused as raw silver by their Turkish owners </p><p><a href="http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ottoman-coins-being-lost-due-to-law-of-30-years-ago-21979" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ottoman-coins-being-lost-due-to-law-of-30-years-ago-21979" rel="nofollow">http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ottoman-coins-being-lost-due-to-law-of-30-years-ago-21979</a></p><p>It has also stimulated widespread smuggling of those coins OUT of Turkey which may be the only way to actually preserve them for Turkish posterity. "Speaking about the issue, Culture and Tourism Minister Ertuğrul Günay said he was not aware about the melting of Ottoman coins but added that he would start an investigation into the issue." Somehow I don't think he has overturning the law in mind. But more to our point, in such an environment it is not hard to imagine that anyone wishing to collect ancient coins would struggle, not only with issues of authenticity, but also with trust issues in matters of guidance. Asking the wrong person for advice might end up in jail time.</p><p><br /></p><p>Let us assume that "memeni" MIGHT be on the up and up. How can we respond to his initial question without giving away the farm? [USER=106112]@memeni[/USER] let me first of all suggest that you seek out an online source for purchase of a reliably authentic example of an attic tetradrachm of the same period and type as what you are showing us. Let it be a basis for comparison. But if getting it into Turkey is going to be a problem, then you will need to check for examples at a local museum which might have such a thing on display. If even that fails, then use the online tool "acsearch" ( <a href="https://www.acsearch.info/home.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.acsearch.info/home.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.acsearch.info/home.html</a> ) so you can see images of numerous authentic examples of these coins for comparison purposes. One of the first rules in collecting ancients is: study best what is known to be authentic.</p><p><br /></p><p>When you have become better informed about the subject you are investigating and have a better sense about what to ask and how to ask it, visit the list and see if we can help you along.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="lrbguy, post: 3703868, member: 88829"]What an interesting conundrum this thread presents! A man claiming to be from Turkey shows us us some pictures of highly questionable Attic Tets and asks us to help him determine if they are authentic or not. When he is told that they do not look good, he asks how we can tell. Of course, knowledgeable collectors know that we have not been given enough information about the material to be able to respond to that, but as he fails to give us the data we need, suspicion about his motivation and character rises and comes to a boil. Soon he is painted as a budding criminal bent on honing his craft guided by our advice, and the group turns away from offering him anything, including hospitality. The emergent attitude seems to be: why risk aiding and abetting a possible criminal in the effort to help out what may or may not be a struggling newby collector. Guilty until proven innocent. Could this be a clash of culture? Since I am imbued with the American approach which presumes innocence until proven guilty, I am going to suggest coming at this in a different way. And it isn't necessary to give up the farm in order to be prudent about all this. Can citizens of Turkey legally collect coins? There is at least one major national numismatic association in Turkey, so collectors do exist, but there is also a piece of legislation that has them bound to modern material. This is law No. 2863: Law on the Conservation of Cultural and Natural Artifacts. This was put forward in 1982 by the National Security Council, adopted and published in their Official Gazette on: 23/07/1983 number: 18113[B], [/B] and has not been amended since. Read it for yourselves: [URL]https://kvmgm.ktb.gov.tr/TR-43249/law-on-the-conservation-of-cultural-and-natural-propert-.html[/URL] This law, which was intended to preserve cultural heritage, has resulted in the melting of untold numbers of Ottoman silver coins which can no longer be collected and so are being reused as raw silver by their Turkish owners [URL]http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ottoman-coins-being-lost-due-to-law-of-30-years-ago-21979[/URL] It has also stimulated widespread smuggling of those coins OUT of Turkey which may be the only way to actually preserve them for Turkish posterity. "Speaking about the issue, Culture and Tourism Minister Ertuğrul Günay said he was not aware about the melting of Ottoman coins but added that he would start an investigation into the issue." Somehow I don't think he has overturning the law in mind. But more to our point, in such an environment it is not hard to imagine that anyone wishing to collect ancient coins would struggle, not only with issues of authenticity, but also with trust issues in matters of guidance. Asking the wrong person for advice might end up in jail time. Let us assume that "memeni" MIGHT be on the up and up. How can we respond to his initial question without giving away the farm? [USER=106112]@memeni[/USER] let me first of all suggest that you seek out an online source for purchase of a reliably authentic example of an attic tetradrachm of the same period and type as what you are showing us. Let it be a basis for comparison. But if getting it into Turkey is going to be a problem, then you will need to check for examples at a local museum which might have such a thing on display. If even that fails, then use the online tool "acsearch" ( [URL]https://www.acsearch.info/home.html[/URL] ) so you can see images of numerous authentic examples of these coins for comparison purposes. One of the first rules in collecting ancients is: study best what is known to be authentic. When you have become better informed about the subject you are investigating and have a better sense about what to ask and how to ask it, visit the list and see if we can help you along.[/QUOTE]
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İ have heard these are fake by some experts through the pictures? Are they really, if so?
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