sorting my 90% junk for numismatic value?

A Possible "Find"

I believe your initial post in the thread was: "The coin could be a key rare date, but if someone over dipped it in cleaning solution then the coin would be considered harshly cleaned and not carry any numismatic value at all, rare key date regardless. I think people lose sight of what numismatic value means. Cleaned coins carry NO, NO, NO numismatic value, regardless of how unique or rare they are." in response to a post of a HYPOTHETICAL extremely remote possibility that a dealer might have tossed a coin of value into a junk bin 20 years prior. I believe that possibility is akin to one finding a PCGS G4 coin being upgraded to MS63. The author explained how he had found "treasures" searching through large sums of junk Silver that he had purchased, totally unrelated to dealer acquisition. Regardless, if one understands the literal meaning of the word "numismatic", they would know of the folly in making the quoted statement. As is the tripe regarding "cleaned" coins being valueless. The word "clean" has a literal meaning of: "free from foreign matter", as are the valuable
coins reclaimed from shipwrecks, "cleaned", certified by TPG, and sold at "premiums". I've spent too many years watching "dealers" wrest treasures from naive neophyte collectors by use of tainted statements, to allow same go unchallenged in a venue for Numismatic knowledge exchange. In regard to the worth of the 1921-D W.L. previously posted, that is unknown, but in excess of "NO, NO, NO, numismatic value", and greater than bullion value, as auction listing fees far exceed that. I realize that these matters can't be objectively discussed in a void, so enough said. I REST MY CASE!!

 

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I think when you mention "Numismatic Value", a good number of people are using the legal definition which is "the value of the coin in excess of it's face". Even rare damaged coins often have Numismatic Value of thousands of dollars. Value is only what the market will bear, regardless.

 

Many great gems from earlier times only exist because they were preserved by collectors who were uninhibited when it came to cleaning them.

It's like stamp collecting - collectors in the past would usually use hinges or even remove the gum entirely from the mint stamps they preserved. Sure today we love "original gum", but our predecessors did not, and we have their stamps as a legacy, no matter how imperfect we find their stewardship.

 

Aptly stated.

 

If they were cleaned, they are most likely no longer gems.

 

OK, puritan.

 

I think he meant to say "Treasures" ?

 

A Possible Correction?

Thank you for your understanding of a LEGAL definition, and I may stand corrected upon your citing the precedent cases which legally established your definition. I believe I can cite precedent cases which determined Numismatic value to be the monetary value of a currency as established by the issuing governing body. This value generally is stated on the item of currency, and varies from the Numismatic "collectible" value, or intrinsic value, which may allow confiscation or taxation by "Government". I believe several precedents have been established for taxation/confiscation of "money", after government seizure of numismatic items which were exchanged as collectibles, and not properly taxed to the satisfaction of governing bodies. I was personally a litigant in one of these actions, and would appreciate receipt of your substantiative citings. I've heretofore presented supportive exceptions in this thread, and would humbly receive same from you, which I'm certain will reveal my limited understanding. I will upon receiving specifics of legal findings, defer to your stellar knowledge/understanding of the subject. Thank you in advance for your enlightening documentation. RICH :bow:

 

When Does A "Gem" Become Worth Less

Interesting Point!! The word "clean" has a literal meaning of: "free from foreign matter". With your "definition", if a wife wore her 3 carat diamond ring unprotected while gardening, accumulating "foreign matter" upon same, and washed her hands while wearing the ring, to remove the "matter", the "gem" will no longer exist. When did it become a "gem"? Will it now revert to being a piece of bituminous matter? Is it now worthless (worth less)? Must it be discarded, or sold to a "dealer" for its' coal value? Which is less expensive, divorce or replacement? :rolling: :smile

 

I didn't use the word "clean." I said "cleaned."

And I used the word "gem" as it refers to condition, not "gem" as in precious stone.

It all depends on the part of speech.

 

Just A Joke!

It's a joke, Son. Cleaned being the past tense of clean, the action is identical, just referring to the condition, regardless of when it occurred. Does something of value (i.e. "Gem") change when the inner beauty is exposed? I pose that the recipient determines value, and may find the condition to be an improvement, making a "Gem" of increased value. The point is: Alterations such as being "cleaned" may not reduce value to the beholder, regardless of that stated by another observer, as has been established for shipwreck "treasure". A "Gem" may always be that, as I tell my significant other, regardless of others "altered state" acceptance. Thanks for your clarification of definition.

 

Hence the smile, Pops.

If cleaning is visible on a coin, and it usually is, then the coin loses substantial value. This is true regardless of how cleaning affects things other than coins.

 

I realize that you are much more informed than myself on the subject. I was only attempting to point out that by being so far above our heads that many of us will never own coins that will be of the premium Numasmatic Value that is destroyed by any imperfection. Most of us down here are happy to find a cleaned 1952 S Roosevelt for a buck. Which by definition is higher than the faqce of the coin. Pardon me for this, as I now realize I had no business venturing among the elite.

 

I wish I had those 2 minutes of my life back.