Hard asset advocate Gary North ran an article on his site today on a coincidental hit and run incident involving a leading expert on the price suppression of gold and silver: "On March 25th at the CFTC Public Hearing on Precious Metals GATA made a dramatic revelation of a whistleblower source, Andrew Maguire, who has first hand evidence of gold and silver market manipulation by JPMorganChase and who has even tipped off the CFTC in advance of manipulative attacks on gold and silver. Just as in the Madoff case the regulator has done nothing to stop such manipulation. "On March 26th while out shopping with his wife, Mr. Maguire's car was hit by a car careening out of a side road. The driver of the vehicle then tried to escape. When a pedestrian eye-witness attempted to block the driver's escape he accelerated at him and would have hit him had the pedestrian not jumped out of the way. The car then hit two other cars in escaping. The driver was apprehended by the police after police helicopters were called in and following a high speed chase. Andrew and his wife were hospitalized with minor injuries. They were discharged from hospital today and should make a full recovery." http://www.gata.org/node/8477
yeap, we heard. Many here are hoping the McGuires make a speedy recovery. Personally, I am OK with the prices being suppressed for a while longer. I need more time to hoard up.
Me as well. Besides, I don't like high gold silver prices, they are usually a sign of trouble. Silver and gold have done really well the last decade. If this is what price suppression looks like, I invite JP Morgan et al. to suppress all of our US dollar denominated savings accounts and 401(k)s too while they're at it .
Duh, really?!? Actually, all sarcasm aside, it's nice to see someone stepping forward. I don't think they're going to change the rules about naked shorting by the big boys. I've never believed much in some great conspiracy to keep the POG down. As Jim Rogers said, someone would have written a book and sold the movie rights. However, that manipulation goes on frequently by anyone able to do so, I've always taken as a given. Hell, if any of us could manipulate the market to our advantage - we would be lined up for blocks. That's the nature of the beast. Get over it. The way to beat this animal, however, is simply take delivery and ownership of your gold and silver. Get the real stuff that you can hold in your hand. I'l see if this link goes thru but it's a nice article, rono
I don't believe gold and silver prices are being consciously supressed as some suggest. But I do believe that large financial institutions will use any means available to them to make money by trading any sort of paper instrument that the law allows, or doesn't know about yet. These people are sociopaths who care nothing about law or markets or anything other than transferring wealth from others to themselves by every available method. I doubt that they think in terms of "My plan is to keep the silver price below $20 forever." It is more like "I can make a gazillion dollars over the next 30 days by shorting the heck out of the silver market because I know that the hedge funds on the long side will panic and sell when the price breaks support levels allowing me to cover at a profit."
Indeed. This is exactly the case although I'd venture to say there is some percentage that will break the law if they feel they can get away with it or it's cost/beneficial. Witness the postrunning mutual funds that got popped . . . and are still around. Call it noise, call it vigorish, regardless, it's something you just have to discount if you're going to participate in the market. rono
It depends on how you want to define manipulation. There may not be somebody sitting behind the curtain moving the lines up and down on the graphs as they want. But, I'm pretty sure it's been proven that some of these places are selling 100 oz (or more) on paper for every 1 real oz they have in possession. That's the rub. It inflates the true supply and keeps prices down. If it all were ever to be called in, I think the S would HTF. You know these places are doing this.
In my opinion, there is definately manipuation in the silver market, and most likely manipulation in the gold market. I understand that most of the general population cannot afford to buy enough gold to really affect the spot price. But with foreign investors from China and the middle east looking to buy billions of dollars in gold, one cannot help but suspect some sort of market manipulation. Silver, on the other hand is almost impossible for the treasury or just about any investment firm or coin shop to keep in stock. Now, the only way the price is as low as it is has to be one of two reasons: market manipulation, or they would have to mine the heck out of it in the western states. As far as I have heard, there are no major spikes in silver mining anywhere in the United States.
You are suggesting that there is some kind of shortage of silver in the market ("almost impossible... to keep in stock"), a claim often heard, but for which I have never seen any evidence. Except 1) regarding the US mint, which has problems supplying enough Eagles at various points in time, a "shortage" which is used to charge excessive premiums to collectors and 2) from certain (not all) dealers when the price drops, and then usually on selected products. (Generic rounds and bars for instance don't seem to develop these "shortages". Nor do their premiums magically ascend as the spot price drops.) Two days later when the price rises, there is never any "shortage". If there were shortages in the jewelry or industrial markets, we'd be hearing about it. But no, these shortages only seem to apply to the collector market, and only in selected circumstances, whereupon my mailbox is flooded with newsletters justifying this nonsense with all kinds of innuendo about looming Comex defaults. When called out on it, the dealer response is "they have to make a profit". Which is not the same thing at all as having a "shortage". Who's doing the manipulating here? 20 years ago you could walk into a US bank in NYC and buy your Krugerands or Pesos over-the-counter. You can do so in Europe and in China. Ordinary middle-class Americans had modest Swiss bank accounts denominated in CHF to hedge their US dollar exposure, and they were cheap and easy to open. Try doing that now. US collector/investors need to stop fantasizing about Comex defaults, shortages, the Rothschilds, and the New World order, and start insisting that we have access to USD investment alternatives that are simple and straightforward, and don't involve a lifetime subscription to tin. "They're not making any more land" "Buy now or be priced out forever" Edit: I don't mean you personally in all of this, I mean us collectively as PM buyers
It is also true that it has been proven that some of the players are buying 100oz or more on paper for every 1 real ounce they intend to purchase. You don't hear much about that. If the CFTC changes the rules to reduce speculative activity on the short side, the longs will also disappear because come delivery time, they won't be able to offset their speculative long positions with a short position, so they will be knocked out of the game or be forced to take delivery of metal they don't want and pay for it with cash they don't have.
I see nothing wrong with that. Why should people with influence and money control the market, for silver or whatever. If the longs are pushed out because they don't have the money to pay for the metal...how is there position long? If you or I purchase PM we need our money up front. Who is buying silver long without the available cash? Who is shorting silver without the actual silver in supply? It isn't you or I. You comments are very contradictory. Here listen to yourself.... It is more like "I can make a gazillion dollars over the next 30 days by shorting the heck out of the silver market because I know that the hedge funds on the long side will panic and sell when the price breaks support levels allowing me to cover at a profit." I don't believe gold and silver prices are being consciously supressed as some suggest. If that isn't consciously done, then what is it? 20 years ago, it was illegal to buy Krugerands, because of the Apartheid in South Africa. I believe that is why the ASE and AGE were introduced in 1986, so that people could still buy gold without having to get them from a country we didn't agree with. I'm trying to find the article that I read that shows that at the rate we mine and consume silver, it should be depleted by 2030. Of course, this doesn't take into account new silver mines being mined.....but who wants to mine in Somalia?
It is perfectly consistent. There is a huge difference between acting in the market to make money, and acting in the market to maintain a certain price range for the metal as groups like GATA believe is occurring. To understand this, you have to recall the history behind it. The CFTC long ago established that taking huge naked long positions in the market will be considered manipulation and will be prohibited. There is no such rule regarding the short side [yet]. So the big players are basically "following the rules" and making money in a manner that is consciously or by omission sanctioned by the regulators. Think about it. If there was a price supression scheme, would gold have risen from $253 to $1100+ and silver from $4 to $18? What sort of supression scheme is that?
Well, if the inflation adjusted price of something is supposed to be around $5000, and it is only $1200, then it has been manipulated. If I lose money because gold goes up $100, how much would I lose it it went up $4000? A lot more, obviously. So, this isn't suppression?
I don't think there is any evidence that the gold price is "suppsed to be around $5000." That sort of analysis is useless garbage. It isn't the way markets work. Commodities normally sell at prices that are roughly linked to the cost of production plus enough profit to make the effort worthwhile. The cost of production for gold is probably less than $1000 for most companies. Gold could easily rise to $5000 in a speculative rise or market disruption from a CFTC rule change [and I expect as much], but there is no evidence that it is manipulated or artificially depressed by some dark evil force in finance/banking as is suggested by GATA.
