That's not Zeus - but who is it?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Sulla80, May 16, 2019.

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  1. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    I purchased this coin ~7 years ago labelled: "Syria, Seleukis and Pieria, Antiocheia AE20. 1st century BC. Zeus". Zeus clearly looks a bit more Roman Provincial and a little younger (more 2nd century AD). Not 100% on the attribution, I would value a second or third opinion. I was going to post it today in the post-em-if-you-got-em thread, but was too slow...and then, I thought it might be worthy of it's own thread.
    Lucius Verus Ae Roman Provincial.jpg
    Lucius Verus Ӕ As of Antioch, Seleucis and Pieria
    AD 161-169.
    Obv: AVT K Λ AVPHΛOVHPOC CЄB, laureate head right
    Rev: S•C within wreath
    Size: 12.76g, 20mm

    One of the appeals of this coin is the thick heavy lump of a flan:
    Big lump.jpg
    During the battle with Parthia in AD 161-166 - Lucius apparently stayed mostly in Antioch and spent his summers in the resort of Daphne ~5 miles from Antioch..

    Share your coins of Antioch, Seleucis and Pieria, hefty AEs or anything else that interests you.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
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  3. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Well-Known Member

    Diadumenian Ae As Antioch, Seleucis & Pieria
    AD 217-218
    18 mm, 4.57 g

    D46B0263-5D1D-44B6-9B39-4F2597AFE23B.jpeg
     
  4. I lean toward Marcus Aurelius; but could be wrong. Lovely bust. Here are 4 examples, each, of both Aurelius and Verus Antioch AE's with SC reverses. What do you guys think when comparing to @Sulla80 's coin?
    Lucius Verus Antioch AE's.png

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    Marcus Antioch AE's.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  5. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Thanks @iamtiberius your coins illustrate the ambiguity that I couldn't resolve - I tend to think of Lucius Verus as looking a bit more weathered and having a longer face and/or longer less well groomed beard than Marcus Aurelius...this CNG coin with both on the same coin illustrates (Lucius left, Marcus right):
    CNGcoin.jpg
    But all die makers didn't necessarily share my thoughts on how to correctly represent these emperors :), and given your 8 portraits, I would not have grouped correctly.
     
  6. Justin Lee

    Justin Lee I learn by doing

    One area that might be helpful is to determine the legend just visible to the top right of the bust. Do the first 3 letters look like OVH (continuing to make ΟVΗΡΟС as on Verus' coins) or ΩΝΙ (assuming the legend break ΑΝΤ-ΩΝΙΝΟС as often in Aurelius' coins). To me it looks more like an O not Ω leading me to believe Verus, but Aurelius' Ω can sometimes be connected as on the upper-right MA example by iamtiberius.

    And checking out example of both Verus and MA from Antioch in RPC Online can be invaluable.
    https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk

    [​IMG]
    Lucius Verus, Ruled 161-169
    AE23, Syria, Antioch Mint

    Obverse: ΑVΤ Κ Λ ΑVΡΗΛ ΟVΗΡΟС СƐΒ, radiate head right.
    Reverse: Large SC within laurel wreath of eight leaves, IB below.
    References: RPC IV 7076, McAlee (Lucius Verus) 2
    Size: 23mm, 8.8g
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  7. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Thanks @Justin Lee - your coin another nice portrait and another variation on the theme of MA-Verus faces and a patina that looks very similar to my coin.

    I appreciate, the OVH tip: definitely a closed O - not much easier to see in hand than it is in the photo, that adds to my leaning Verus...I didn't find many to compare in RPC - about 18 each and found both a Marcus Aurelius and a Lucius Verus that I could convince myself match the OP coin.
     
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  8. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Bringing back another Golden Oldie because I found this thread very helpful with an attribution hurdle I was having trouble with the past couple of days...

    Indeed, Lucius Verus and Marcus Aurelius portraits from Antioch are hard to tell apart a lot of the time. The coin below was attributed by the seller (eBay) as Lucius Verus. From what I saw, it sure looked like Lucius Verus to me. However, when I started digging in, I saw an "M" in the obverse legend, meaning this has to be Marcus Aurelius, from what I can tell after hours going blind on RPC online, acsearch, etc.

    Antioch - M. Aurelius SC lot May 2022 (0).jpg
    Marcus Aurelius Æ 22
    (161-180 A.D.)
    Syria, Seleucis & Pieria Antiochia ad Orontem

    AYT K M AYPHΛ [ANTIΩINOC CEB], laureate head right / S C, A below, all within laurel wreath of eight bunches of leaves
    McAlee 590h; RPC IV.3 7049.
    (12.91 grams / 22 x 21 mm)
    eBay May 2022
    Attribution Notes: Seller listed this as Lucius Verus (portrait does resemble LV), but M in obverse legend is for Aurelius.
    For the other one I own like this I made this note, which seems to apply to this specimen: RPC IV.3 7049 (temp) seems to match McAlee 590h, but references: "McAlee (M. Aurelius) 15."

    Here's the "M":

    Antioch - M. Aurelius SC lot May 2022 (0det).jpg

    I have another Marcus Aurelius from Antioch, the same type as the new one shown above; the M is harder to see on this. But the portrait on this one looks more Marcus-y to me; the Harlan Berk attribution gave me far more confidence about this one:

    Antioch - M. Aurelius SC Sep 2021 (0).jpg
    Antioch - M. Aurelius SC Sep 2021 (1berk).jpg
    Marcus Aurelius Æ 20
    (161-180 A.D.)
    Syria, Seleucis & Pieria Antiochia ad Orontem

    [AYT K] M AYPHΛ AN[TIΩINOC CEB], laureate head right / S C, H below, all within laurel wreath of eight bunches of leaves
    McAlee 590h; RPC IV.3 7049.
    (9.67 grams / 20 x 18 mm)
    eBay Sept. 2021
    Attribution Notes: Coin came in a Harlan J. Berk flip. Attribution on flip is
    "McAlee-590h." Also: "Rare. Ex Robert Effler Collection. Said to have been
    found in Beirut."
    RPC IV.3 7049 (temp) seems to match this, but references "McAlee (M. Aurelius) 15."

    So thank you, CTers of this thread - this was helpful (and made me feel as if I weren't the only one having trouble with these - you are not alone, @Sulla80 !). :)
     
  9. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    I bought this one about 12 years ago :D.

    4098442-006, AK Collection.jpg
     
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