Two New Large Cents -- Plus Solved a Large Part of My Photo Problem

I found that I was using TOO much light when photographing my coins.
The images would end up very little detail.
Backing off on the lighting solved about 80-90% of my problem.

Now my main problem is ID'ing the Newcomb variety.
Some of these coins have over 20 varieties.

 

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But I do have a question on the two specimens above. As I too have had coppers as well nickels that should of been dipped and treated with verdi care.
I like a quick dip and some verdi care treatment before grading. As we know slabs arent air tight,and the vergis will continue to eat away at the coin.
I find that it helps to neutralize the decay .
I am always studing coppers for any areas of vergis.

 

@Paddy I don't disagree with the desire to remove verdigris.
BUT
If I understand correctly, the two main TPG's (NGC and PCGS) have "sniffers" that can detect Verdicare which will result in a coin being labeled "DETAILS - Cleaned".
That would cut a coin's value about in half.
And that would result in losing money (my coins are already straight graded hence I've paid for that).

 

1848 looks like N-9 which is R-1. 1853 looks like an N-16 to me which is R-1+

 

Thanks for the look.
Now I'll see if I can come up with same results (or any results).

I've got a couple others that I gave up on after a half hour on each.
But I noticed that the large images appear to make ID'ing them easier than my 9x loupe.

I seem to go for coins in the VF/XF range.
They look good enough to please me and the cost isn't too high.
But I read somewhere a few year ago that some of the PUPs can disappear when a coin gets below AU.

 

Congrats on your photographing experiences. I can see why too much lighting, and/or to close, would create a problem, especially if the coin is in a slab. Nice photos @kanga.

 

I can appreciate that John....I just have issues with the green monster ,and carbon spots on buffalos.
I've had several nice buffalos produce carbon spots after grading...it cant be stopped I get it nut those two things sours me on making a purchase.
I hope to get up to see Len next Sunday at the flea market. Anyway stay well..hope to see you about soon.

 

You have winners there @kanga. Thanks for sharing them.

 

Thanks for the update

 

Whatever your saying sounds good. R-1 is a rarity rating right. And guessing R-1 is good

 

R-1 is the most common.
R-8 is the rarest.

But I think there is (or was) another scale.

 

Thre are several rarity scales. The R1 to R8 Sheldon Scale is the one typically used for Large cents and half cents, Bust halves, frankly most Early US coinage. The next most common is the Universal Rarity Scale which starts at 1 being the rarest and is open ended (no largest number) but once you get past about URS-9 the number of "known" pieces becomes so large that larger numbers are pretty much meaningless because there is no way to really know how many pieces there really are.

 

I'm pretty sure that's not the case, although I haven't submitted any Verdicare-treated coins myself. You can rinse it off with water after treatment if you're concerned, but I think the "protective layer" left behind if you don't is NOT anything that the sniffers look for.

@BadThad @GDJMSP

 

From what I've seen and understand as an analytical chemist the sniffer is an FTIR-ATR type of instrument. This technique is not very sensitive and a thin layer of VC should not be detectable. I've verified this myself in the lab using a REAL FTIR-ATR that is much more sensitive than their instrument. The sniffer is not routinely used at PCGS unless you pay for that service level or the coin is valuable enough they want to verify anything suspicious the graders may see.

I have received notes from many different collectors over the years that have used VC on coins and they came back slabbed. Of course, any conservation is tricky and I cannot guarantee a coin will pass through any grading company after conservation no matter how it was done. If you decide to "tinker" with any coin, you're on your own as far as the TPGs. For those that know me, I generally recommend NOT messing with your coins. Personally, I don't mind a little bit of non-damaging crust on coins, it demonstrates it's originality!

 

I'm grateful to you for sharing this information. Sometimes, the discussion seems like "coin babble", as opposed to "Coin Talk". The identification and grading of U.S. pre-1800 Large Cents are a good example of this. If they supplied a link to the relevant terms, and what they signify, more of the people who read from this site would have better understanding.

 

Thanks to all that shared. I have never treated any of my coins nor have I sent any of my coins for grading. I have bought graded coins because, sometimes I haven't found them on ebay or some other source for coins.

 

@Cheech9712, just to add some detail to @Condor101's excellent reply, here are the defined numbers associated with each rarity scale. Note that any coin with an estimated rarity is subject to change as the known number of coins can change with time and additional discoveries. You will also sometimes see a coin labeled, for example, "R-4+". This means that someone, often but not always a credible and widely recognized expert, has estimated that the R-4+ coin is closer to a population of 76 than it is to a population of 200.

Specialty collector clubs such as Early American Coppers, John Reich Collectors Society and others often conduct censuses of the coins in their members hands in an attempt to ascertain the number and condition of coins. These censuses are necessarily incomplete and are but one of the tools used to estimate rarity.

Sheldon Scale:
R-1: Common, over 1000
R-2: Fairly Common, 501-1000
R-3: Scarce, 201-500
R-4: Very Scarce, 76-200
R-5: Rare, 31-75
R-6: Very Rare, 13-30
R-7: Extremely Rare, 4-12
R-8: Unique or Nearly Unique, 1-3

Universal Rarity Scale:
URS-1: 1 known, unique
URS-2: 2 known
URS-3: 3 or 4
URS-4: 5 to 8
URS-5: 9 to 16
URS-6: 17 to 32
URS-7: 33 to 64
URS-8: 65 to 124
URS-9: 125 to 249
URS-10: 250 to 499
URS-11: 500 to 999
URS-12: 1000 to 1999
URS-13: 2000 to 3999
URS-14: 4000 to 7999

 

not sure why the topic shifted to rarity scales. The person who started this thread asked for help with attribution on his 2 coins. I am the only person who tried to help with this. Anybody else agree or disagree with my attributions?

 

I'm the OP and I'm still trying to see what varieties I come up with.
I'm using the Noyes books.
I'm not well practiced and the 20 or so varieties for each of the two dates are making it difficult for me.
And even the fact that my coins grade AU, some of the PUPs are very small or imbedded in the debris around the devices.
And other PUPs have disappeared even at the AU level.
I think I've hit on one of the PUPs that should simplify the effort somewhat.