What about Mên ?...the god..not the male humans!

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ryan McVay, Nov 15, 2021.

  1. Ryan McVay

    Ryan McVay Well-Known Member

    I've been looking for examples of Mên since my Elagablus AE coins aren't showing up at action that much these days.
    I recently picked up a nice portrait coin of Mên- Gordian III. The coin is chipped as you can see.
    But darn it, that is a nice style bust portrait and you can see the stars on the Phrygian Cap (oops sorry it is NOT a Phrygian Cap) just a Parthian warrior cap. I would challenge anyone to show me a Phrygian wearing a hat like this! Scythians, Sarmatians Thracians, Dacians, Persians, yes. Phrygians, no. Helmets, yes...Hats, no.
    Men w nice cap.jpg

    ParthianInChains.jpg
    ParthianInChains - Parthian Empire — Wikipedia Republished // WIKI 2

    I've got a few other coins that are supposed to be here soon..waiting on FedEx updates..starting to get worried but one has Mên holding a pine cone. From what I've read the pine cone is associated with Attis- god of agriculture (dying and resurrection). "The evergreen and erect pine which cloaks Mediterranean mountainsides had an important phallic meaning to these seemingly related religious mystery cults." ("Sabazios and the Phrygian mood-god 'Men'", The Atlantic Religion: A 'Princa Theologia' of European Paganism, Aug, 2013.)

    Then there are the Antioch, Pisidia Mên with a rooster/cock coins. Mên facing left and right.
    Men  r with rooster.jpg

    So what do your coins of Mên look like?
     
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  3. kirispupis

    kirispupis Well-Known Member

    Here's my one coin of Mên.

    51562514177_5eafe85936_o.jpg
    "PAPHLAGONIA, Amastris. Circa 285-250 BC. AR Stater (23mm, 8.88 g, 12h). Head of Mên right, wearing Phrygian cap decorated with laurel branch and star / Aphrodite seated left, holding in extended right hand Nike, who crowns her with wreath, and cradling lotus-tipped scepter in left arm; rose to left. Callataÿ, Premier, Group 2, 43 (D17/R21 – this coin); RG 5; HGC 7, 356.
    Ex Sigmund Collection.
    Ex CNG 1999
    Ex CNG 2021
     
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  4. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    I love the stars on the cap!

    mên.jpg
    Pisidian Antioch: Marcus Aurelius (161-180)
     
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  5. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    You might be interested in this thread from last year about Pisidian Antioch and Mên. I have a couple of coins depicting the god from different cities in Pisidia but I believe they were struck at a centralized mint.

    [​IMG]
    Julia Domna, AD 193-217.
    Roman provincial Æ 21.3 mm, 5.15 g, 7 h.
    Pisidia, Parlais, AD 193-196?
    Obv: IVLIA-DOMNA, bare-headed and draped bust, right.
    Rev: IVL AVG C-OL PARLAIS, Mên standing r., wearing Phrygian cap, left foot on bucranium, holding spear and pinecone; behind his shoulders, crescent.
    Refs: BMC 21.11, 3; SNG von Aulock 5137 (same obv. die).

    [​IMG]
    Gordian III, AD 238-244.
    Roman Provincial Æ 35 mm, 26.72 g, 6 h.
    Pisidia, Antioch, AD 238-244.
    Obv: IMP CAES M ANT GORDIANVS AVG, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust of Gordian III, r., seen from rear.
    Rev: COL CAES ANTIOCH, S-R, Mên standing r., wearing Phrygian cap, foot on bucranium, holding sceptre and Victory (standing r., on globe, holding trophy), resting elbow on column; behind his shoulders, crescent; to l., rooster standing, l.
    Refs: RPC VII.2, — (unassigned; ID 3431); Krzyżanowska XXII/94; BMC xix.187, 70.
     
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  6. GinoLR

    GinoLR Well-Known Member

  7. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Here is Mên on a bronze of Julia Domna. (It's the only time Mên wandered through my store.)

    normal_Domna_Men_k.jpg

    PISIDIA, Antioch. Julia Domna. Augusta, AD 193-217.
    Æ35, 25.8g, 6h.
    Obv.: IVLIA A-VGVSTA; Draped bust r.
    Rev.: COL CES ANTIOCH; Mên standing facing, head right, left foot on bucranium, leaning on low cippus, holding sceptre and Nike; to left, cock standing left; S R across fields.
    Reference: Krzyzanowska XXI/48; SNG France 1121.
     
  8. Ryan McVay

    Ryan McVay Well-Known Member

    Oh, the debate begins! Most auction house don't identify the portrait but provide 3 options. Being 250BCE I'd go with Mithra. But since we don't know what Amastris looked like it could be her. But it would be really early for Men.
     
  9. kirispupis

    kirispupis Well-Known Member

    Interesting. I checked with Callatay, who I think is the expert on Amastris, and he seems to feel that this is not Men, but is non-committal on Mithra vs Amastris herself.

    However, when I look at his summary of the different visages, he notes that Men is typically represented by a Phrygian cap with eight-pointed star and lunar crescent. There is an eight-pointed star on my coin, and the lunar crescent looks to be above-right of the star.

    Searching for the history of Men worship has been challenging, as searches have been bringing up other things... :)
     
  10. Ryan McVay

    Ryan McVay Well-Known Member

    Yes. I agree. But take a look at the phrygian cap images and the filter for helmets! You may actually find a match for coin. So is the a cap/ fabric or helmet/metal? If helmet then it might just be a stylistic object and not related to Men. There is also another option that we should look at...Attis!
    Anyway, I'm by no means an expert at this and we don't have any evidence for anything. It's all opinion!
    Oh, and that is a stunner coin too!
     
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  11. Ryan McVay

    Ryan McVay Well-Known Member

    AMESTRIS (Gr. Ámēstris, Ionic for Ámāstris), Greek form of an Old Persian female proper name. It may reflect Old Persian *Amāstrī-, containing *ama- “strength, strong” and *strī- “woman;” cf. the Avestan phrase kainīnō . . . amayǡ (Haδōxt nask 2.9; see Justi, Namenbuch, p. 512).
    I'm leaning heavy to Mithra. That is a Persian based religion and she was Persian. Putting her name on a coin is one thing but her image? That would take some serious..well man parts!
    Here's a very well done article and it agrees this is not a phrygian cap.
    https://www.ancientworldmagazine.com/articles/amastris-first-hellenistic-queen/
     
  12. kirispupis

    kirispupis Well-Known Member

    I finally found some info by searching for "lunus", which is another name for Mên. I also found an article about Mithra from Britannica, which states that by the time Alexander conquered Persia, Mithraism was pretty much done - or at least from the ruling class (and Amastris was the niece of Darius III). This would seem to make Mithra unlikely.

    However, this article makes a much different point, essentially saying that at the time of Pharnaces, worship of Mithra was common in the area (Mithridates) and that he introduced the worship of Mên there. What I find even more intriguing is the image of the Pharnaces gold coin. The sun and crescent moon are almost exactly the same as those on my coin.

    So, I'm less inclined to think this is Mên, but I'm still not sure this is Mithra. Perhaps the sun and moon referenced Mithra, but the obverse was someone else (such as Amastris herself). Pharnaces did put his own image on his coins, though that was much later.

    I'm actually wondering if she was brave enough to use her own image. After all, she did literally write "Queen Amastris" on her coins. That was already risky.
     
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  13. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    I love this one due to the left facing obverse
    Septimius Severus Parlais Imhoof MG 118.JPG
     
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