Your Thoughts On Coins Submitted To NGC And Hazing While Waiting To Be Graded

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by keemao, Aug 12, 2021.

  1. keemao

    keemao Well-Known Member

    Let me start off by saying I have never sent in a coin for grading that has any type of what I call hazing or film on them. I sent in a large order of coins to NGC for grading. Some MS, some Proof. They sat unopened in the original packaging for over a month before they showed up received and then took over 2 months to finally be graded and sent to me. I had a preplanned trip to Thailand in July and just before I left I got an email that some of my coins were flagged for conservation. Of course, they never tell you why so I asked and through some back and forth the person that graded them said he flagged them because of film on them. Of course, I could not see the coins until they were mailed back to me. But during the course of the emails back and forth, the coins were quickly mailed out but of course came while I was gone. I got back Tuesday afternoon and opened to box and looked at the coins. Yes, you can see some film on some of them that I know was not there when they were mailed in.

    So has anyone had this happen to them before? I believe the film developed on some of them from sitting for so long unopened and then for over 2 months waiting to be graded. I have asked what my options are as I feel it was the storage of the coins for so long that caused the film on some of them but have not received a response.
     
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  3. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    I have never seen a haze or film on my coins, but I have experienced a change in toning on several of my coins, which fits in the broader topic of change in appearance. The submission was made in March of 2019 which effectively eliminates both wait time and high temperatures as the reason for the change in appearance, but anyway, here is the coin.

    [​IMG]

    This photograph was taken raw and you can see that the fields are primarily a light powder/ice blue while the obverse devices are mostly peach and sunshine yellow.

    [​IMG]

    Post grading, you can see that the toning on the coin has darkened substantially. And I promise that this isn't a result of photography, the coin is actually much darker than it was before submission. As to what could have caused this, I really have no idea, but I thought this anecdote fit nicely into this thread.
     
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  4. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Recently, another member wrote that a similar thing happened to him. Haze happens to coins in original packaging. Haze is accelerated if improperly stored. NGC has a controlled environment. The grader has NO IDEA what your coins looked like before they came to his desk so we are left with two innocent parties, you and NGC. When your coins were flagged for conservation, I guess the best thing to do would pay extra to have them conserved before grading. That's a edited!
    Unfortunately, it is easy to give suggestions when it is not my money.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2021
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  5. Mkman123

    Mkman123 Well-Known Member

    @ddddd Didn't this happen to one of your coins?
     
  6. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    A mailed package, particularly a cardboard mailer or corrugated box will absorb moisture in transit between origin and destination. Even though the coins are stored in a climate controlled environment while at the grading service, some moisture absorbed in transit will be trapped inside the packaging, and will remain there until opened. The same goes for your graded coins while waiting for you to pick them up.

    It is entirely possible that trapped moisture contributed to the change in appearance of your coins while traveling in both directions.
     
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  7. ddddd

    ddddd Member

  8. keemao

    keemao Well-Known Member

    This is the answer I got back from NGC. Of course I doubt they will ever admit that a coin can get some film or hazing while locked away for 4 months but I pressed it a little in a return email to see if they would at least concede that it could happen.

    "With our building housing a variety of collectibles ranging from coins, comics, cards and artifacts it is very important that it is temperature controlled. From the time the mail trucks deliver the packages we keep them in that type of environment. If coins come in mint packaging they are not removed from the packaging until the submission is received in the computer system. We do not open any package until we are ready to start the process and are able to barcode the items.

    Coins are recommended for conservation because the grader believes that the coins appearance can be improved. If there is an issue with the coin that prevents the coin from being graded and encapsulated such as residue, PVC or lacquer, that will be stated in the attachment that is sent in the email. If the coin is able to be graded and is also recommended then the current grade will be shown in the attachment and the reason it is being recommended is because the coins appearance can be improved which may result in a higher grade but is not guaranteed. Please let me know if you have any other questions."
     
  9. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    keemao, posted: "This is the answer I got back from NGC. Of course I doubt they will ever admit that a coin can get some film or hazing while locked away for 4 months but I pressed it a little in a return email to see if they would at least concede that it could happen."

    'With our building housing a variety of collectibles ranging from coins, comics, cards and artifacts it is very important that it is temperature controlled. From the time the mail trucks deliver the packages we keep them in that type of environment. If coins come in mint packaging they are not removed from the packaging until the submission is received in the computer system. We do not open any package until we are ready to start the process and are able to barcode the items.

    Coins are recommended for conservation because the grader believes that the coins appearance can be improved. If there is an issue with the coin that prevents the coin from being graded and encapsulated such as residue, PVC or lacquer, that will be stated in the attachment that is sent in the email. If the coin is able to be graded and is also recommended then the current grade will be shown in the attachment and the reason it is being recommended is because the coins appearance can be improved which may result in a higher grade but is not guaranteed. Please let me know if you have any other questions.'


    This is the real world. Anyone with experience dealing with coins knows that they can change under the "right" conditions - even those sealed in a TPGS slab. You know it, I know it, and all the TPGS's know it. The reply you received protects the TPGS. They are NOT going to say that even a POSSIBILITY exists that your coin can be HARMED in any way, including haze when crap happens.

    BTW, one dealer insists with the threat of bodily harm to me that if I ever take his coins in a car, they better be inside the car (not in the trunk) with the air conditioner cranked up to max! So far, I'm still living.
     
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  10. keemao

    keemao Well-Known Member

    Yes, I doubt they would ever admit it can happen but it would be nice if they would take some responsibility since they are so backed up because of lack of staff that it takes 4 months to get your coins back. It's worth a try, though.


     
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  11. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Well-Known Member

    To be honest, I can't see so much difference as you're apparently seeing, but I'm not that familiar with your coins so you naturally would notice it easier/more. Maybe just a tad (to me) but really not much. Still, though this was a repeat from the other day...a very similar experience by another member was posted, so maybe something's up with it more than a coincidence of timing with coins that were about to tone for various reasons, anyway. Other than contacting NGC and inquiring as far as you want to go, or can go with their disclaimers, et al, I'd give serious thought to not submitting anything again until all this pause and delay mess clears up. I have some to grade but not about to submit until things improve. Like to see their vault/storage (and security) of so many vast numbers of coins sitting around for so long, growing every day before finally getting to the assembly line...wonder if they have to store off-site, which opens up a whole new can of worms.
     
  12. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    I agree but THEY CANNOT. The top TPGS are too big to sweat the small stuff
    although they would probably like to. :)

    In a perfect world, someone would tell you that since you were not happy with our service, send the coin back at our expense and we'll try to fix it. Then they would send a one free grading coupon for your next submission. Unfortunately, this is not a perfect world.

    Can you imagine a big company having so much work :D:greedy::greedy::greedy: that they STOP TAKING SUBMISSIONS for six months so they can catch up? I heard that's what happened at one sports card grading service. Perhaps NGC and PCGS have the same problem but cannot afford to shut off submissions.
     
  13. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    It was PSA they were getting more submissions in a week than they would in a month. After several weeks of that and falling months and months behind they had to shut off everything but walk through to dig out. The card market has been on absolute fire and it’s not just sports cards, it’s magic cards, Pokémon, game cards, etc. The card submitters would have loved a 4 month turn around as many of them were looking at almost a year, they really didn’t have any choice but to put the breaks on for a little bit.
     
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  14. keemao

    keemao Well-Known Member

    Yes, NGC is still taking about 4 months to grade and a month to just show your coins received, which means they sit in the supposedly temperature controlled safe for all that time waiting to be opened from their original packaging. We all know it takes time to train new graders but this is the worst I have seen them be this slow getting the coins out. I have some coins that have been there since May and have been scheduled for grading for a couple months now. I assume they will finally get shipped in September.
     
  15. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    keemao, posted: "Yes, NGC is still taking about 4 months to grade and a month to just show your coins received, which means they sit in the supposedly temperature controlled safe for all that time waiting to be opened from their original packaging. We all know it takes time to train new graders but this is the worst I have seen them be this slow getting the coins out. I have some coins that have been there since May and have been scheduled for grading for a couple months now. I assume they will finally get shipped in September."

    When I worked there a decade ago we were busy but not that busy. I suggested running a second shift or working late a couple of days a week to blow out coins. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of money to keep a secured building open and professional graders with a family (unlike me) want to have a life besides work! Even opening a tiny branch somewhere to keep the overhead down would work.

    Obviously, the three most important things needed to have a great TPGS are:

    1. Speed of turnaround.
    2. Low cost
    3. Acceptable Accuracy.

    If you control the market, none of this is necessary.
     
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  16. bear32211

    bear32211 Always Learning

    You now have my attention. I sent a box to NGC June 24th. It took a while for them show received. Now they show in Quality Control and Finalizing. I just mailed another box to them just last week and going to follow that one too, but now want to see what the first group will look like when I get then back. Thanks for the post.
     
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