While browsing http://www.moderncoinmart.com/cart1/home.php?cat=194 I see many different 2009 AGBs, eg NGC MS70 DCAMEO, CAMEO, many fractionals. I want a deep cameo buit don't know which is the best investment. It appears the 2009 AGB might be unlimited mintage. I own an AGB mint package proof and a 2009 AGB (no mint mark) MS70 early release (I've learned from the coin talk from it is probably only worth bullion spot price.) Should I buy an earlier year cameo or deep cameo AGB? Are fractionals a good investment? I also own an AGE 2009 ms70 early release. Is it safe to assume that it's only worth bullion price? If so should I trade in the AGB & AGE early releases for a gold coin(s) that has collector value not just bullion value? Is the mint going to release AGE cameo? Thanks
buy direct from the u.s. mint only. and you can make money. remember if you buy from dealers. here is the sample. you gonna lose money. dealers buy from you ----------------------$1,000.00 dealers to dealers (cdn newsletter) bid --- $1,150.00 dealers to dealers (cdn newsletter) ask--- $1,250.00 dealers sell to you ------------------------- $1,450.00 so you buy from dealer at $1,450.00. on that same day. if you sell it to other dealer. you gonna lose $450.00. buy direct from the mint. 09 buffalo proof at $1,360.00. you will not lose money on that same day. but sometimes it might make some money. like 3 pc 2006 am eagle silver set. mint price - $100.00. you can make a lot of money. right?
What you write makes a lot of sense as I've paid a premium for two bullion coins. Is the mint going to release Cameo AGB? I've been collecting ASE since they were released but only bought proof ASEs. After following your AGB threads and other threads I've learned a lot. Also at coin shows now I notice so many more interesting coins that I passed over before reading CoinTalk.
I like the gold buffalo more. Much more beautiful coin to me personally. I think it also has a much greater investment potential.
What exactly do you mean when you say Cameo? are you referring to what you read on the label from NGC / PCGS?
All modern proof coins now have a cameo appearance, that includes the ABG. I have never seen a MS ABG, described as cameo nor would I expect any. The bullion/unc ABGs are intended to have a matte/burnished finish. The proof coins have the cameo appearance which is a frosted device (raised areas) and mirrored field. Hope this helps.
Yes it does help. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I think the slabbed proof AGB look more impressive. Prior to buying gold coins this year I mainly bought ASE,art medals and interesting coins from other countries. I've got a lot to learn.
buy the coin and not the slab. If you're strategy is investment and not collecting stick with ungraded bullion. The US Mint does not sell bullion directly to the citizens. At the same time bullion is still the least expensive way to add PMs to ones investment portfolio. If you choose to collect then you may want slabbed but IMO if one is looking at pure profit margin bullion is the better investment If you are willing to fully understand numismatics then slabbed and proofs maybe for you but do understand that there are more risks involved. DYODD
I'm a collector first and investor second. At first I liked the mint presentations more so then slabbed coins. After owning several very nice slabbed coins I now prefer the slabbed coins over Mint presentation in most cases because the slab allows me to focus on the coins. However, the UHR mint presentation and AGB are pretty good, imo. ". . . If you are willing to fully understand numismatics then slabbed and proofs maybe for you but do understand that there are more risks involved. . ." It seems the learning curve is pretty steep but I'm trying. What are the additional risks? I was confident when purchasing slabbed and proof coins (except for the two slabbed bullion coins I bought w/o knowing better. ) This forum is a tremendous help re: DYODD
The positive side of PM numismatics... the coin will always be worth the price of its metal content. The downside... if you purchase a coin with a numismatic premium and the collectors market dries up, you'll be on the downside hoping that the market returns. If you purchase while spot and the numi premium are high and then both drop you will be on the wrong end in two ways... not just one An example... - 2010 Proof Buff sells for $1400 - 2010 Bullion Buff sells for $1200. Au then shoots up to $3000. The 2010 Proof Buffs have a mintage of 100k+. The mintage pretty much kills the numi premium. With Au at $3000 there is a greater chance that the premium on the buff will not be realized causing the loss of the premium and in effect you loosing $200 vs. the Bullion Buff.
Good clear examples. Here's where the investment question came into play for me. Prior to buying five gold coins this year I never thought about the purchase cost of coins and medals in the context of investing because the cost never was more than a few hundered dollars a clip. This year I've spent about $6,000.00 on gold coins. I started thinking if I'm spending >$7K (including purchases at shows and such) a year in coins and medals I better start learning which coins I should be buying and building a strategy that protects my investment and possibly grows it in value. got the following link from another CT thread: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703811604574533732182243424.html ". . . The PCGS3000 Index of rare coins has returned an annualized 11.3% since January 1970. During that same period, the Dow Jones Industrial Average has gained about 6.5% annually. Earlier this year, Dale Friend, a retired lawyer in Lake Tahoe, Nev., auctioned a complete collection of so-called U.S. Barber half-dollars, minted between 1892 and 1915. The high-grade collection took seven years to build, and Mr. Friend held the set for eight years thereafter. His coins earned $1.1 million at auction, nearly 100% more than their original cost. . . "
Another difference is modern vs. pre '33/'64 or anything that was minted 100+ years ago. Moderns in theory do not compare to older circulated coins that have PM content. IMO the TPG indices are geared toward their services more so than the coins themselves (when it comes to modern issues) and are trying to set the price instead of the market. Modern coins are all uncirculated and generally grade 69/70. The manufacturing process all but assures an almost perfect strike. If one wants to purchase only pre '33 as an investment and do not have years of knowledge regarding the coin(s) then I would suggest purchasing only slabbed coins from the top 2 TPGs. If purchasing modern bullion/collectable buy raw unless you can find slabbed for the same or similar price. Buy the coin not the slab.
