First Spouse gold...Are they Bullion or Collectibles??

I wonder if the mint makes money on a coin with a 4000+- mintage. Even with a $125 premium. 125X4000= $500,000, is that enough to pay for the prep of the dies and all of the process involved in making these coins? (remember the machines used to make these are very expensive) Also they lose money on postage.

 

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Very interesting point! There has to be a break even point somewhere. Good question.

 

I doubt they are making profit on the First Spouse Gold series. In fact, on the lower mintage ones they are likely losing money. Of course, they don't make and sell these for profit, they do so because Congress told them to do so and they have to do so.

Just like the penny, they lose money on it but they still have to make it.

 

So then if the mint is actually loosing money with each coin, then the $629 shouldn't seem that bad after all. We are actually buying a coin for less than what it is actually worth.

 

Regardless of price Joe, I cant wait to see your collection completed!
WOW..that is going to be an elegant set of 1/2 oz Gold coins whether they are bullion or not.

Keep em going Joe...what a fantastic goal!

RickieB

 

That isn't my point. The point is that collectors are being manipulated by the Mint in my opinion and being led to purchase coins at premium prices by limiting quantities and increasing varieties. People are free to disagree.

 

First of all, I don't want anyone to interpret this going back and forth between Cloudsweeper and I as anything other than a friendly debate on this topic. I respectfully disagree with his point of view as he does mine, but I believe that these aspects of numismatics must be laid out on the table and be discussed in a cordial and friendly arena which we are doing. Ultimately, its up to each one of us to formulate our own opinions on the subject.

Now back to the debate.

First of all, no one is being manipulated. Either you want the coin or you don't. If you want it, you pay the price. If you don't, well, you don't pay it and maybe wait for it to come on the secondary market and hope for a steal. Other than our modern commemorative coins and First spouse coins and a few specialty items the mint produces, none of our other US coins have mintage limits on them. It still comes down to the fact that prices are set to cover costs of production, distribution and advertising. Those are some other things I forgot to mention previously, but someone has to pay for all the advertising the mint does when they release a new coin. All these costs are worked into the price of the coin.

What I am disagreeing with you about is that the premium being attached to the coins the mint is selling has more to do with the overall costs and profit margins associated with the coin than the limited quantities of the coins being produced and any kind of false hype the mint is creating due to any limited mintages. If you really want to see over exuberant costs applied to coins, just look at the Canadian, British and Australian mints.....and they actually do have a limit on their mintages.

When you buy coins either on ebay or elsewhere for less than they originally sold for then someone usually is taking the loss. Whether it is the person that is selling the coins or the person that sold the coins to the person who is now selling them.

I guess Cloudsweeper, I just don't know what you expect the mint to charge for these coins? I have been in both sales and marketing for most of my professional life. You will always have an actual cost to produce an item, but there are other costs that get added to the final overall price such as transportation costs, packaging costs, marketing costs, shipping costs, etc that the public doesn't see. With all this being said, I am now going to blow my money on some British silver coins. :headbang:

 

A much spirited debate but I have to say I agree with Joe...

 

I concur

 

No matter who you agree with do NOT buy these coins from the mint buy them on the secondary market (for bullion purposes that is).

 

OK, here's my 2 cents if anyone's interested...

We're in the third year of a ten year run. Most of these coins will trade at about their bullion value until the series completes. The MS/PF-70 coins...and the "current key to the series" coins, may trade at a slight premium over bullion, but not by much.

Once the series completes, I think these coins will become increasingly collectible. Collectors will be eventually drawn to this series by their low mintages and beautiful artwork rather than their "uninspired" (OK...I said it!) subject matter.

As gold prices increase, I expect a number of these coins may find their way into jewelry or the melt pot. I'm a Collector first and foremost...but like jaceravone, I think some of the coins in this series have tremendous upside potential.

Cloudsweeper99's point is also well taken. The US Mint seems to be turning into a Franklin mint...churning out product, diluting the collector base, and relying on lower mintages to maintain collector enthusiasm (I hope I stated that correctly).

We have the State quarters, President dollars, Spouse gold, nickle series, penny series, next are the National Parks quarters...what's after that? ...the Classic Car series?

 

Very well put.....

The United States Mint is a "for profit" entity. Each Commem that is approved goes through a legislative approval process. The mintage # and composition are determined in this process as well. The pricing for Commem's is also determined during this process and usually there is some portion of the fee that goes toward protecting a species like the Bald Eagle Program.

I am sure there is an document/Act on the Spouse Series of Gold Coins...in this document everything will be spelled out precisely. Now, the Mint has operating cost's just like any other business, they have employees, materials, maint, utilities and everything else that all of us have in a common way.
Why should the Mint not be allowed to make a profit?

My feeling is that when I was buying coins from the Mint, I was willing to pay for this service, just as we all pay for everything we use, buy, eat, drink, smoke....you get the idea.

Marketing??? Why heck yes there is marketing from the Mint...you bet ya!
The decision lie's within you the investor/collector, do I want it or do I not?

It is just as simple as that.


Regards,

RickieB

 

The US mint does not decide what coins to mint. The US Congress does.

The mint has no say in what coins are made, what the mintage is or the time period the coins are minted.

 

I don't think that is relevant. The result is the same.

 

I disagree that they will trade near bullion prices until the end of the series or so... I think they will trade near mint issue prices OR bullion prices, whichever is higher. That's what I've seen. I've only seen the 2007 coins go for melt value and those were the coins issued for around $400-$425 each.

With maybe a few rare exceptions, the 2008-2009 coins issued for $600+ each haven't been selling for melt, but instead have been selling for around their issue prices. If there are 2009 spouse coins out there for melt, please please correct me and point me in the direction of the seller, I have my checkbook ready

For me, I was looking to buy gold from the mint anyways as a way to diversify my coin investments into more gold. Figured the Spouse series has a ton more upside potential than the Eagles and/or Buffalos which are issued at the same prices.

 

Again do not buy these from the mint for bullion purposes, secondary market is the place for that.

 

Congress controls the mint, if you want a change contact your rep

 

I agree with your disagreement . Personally, I don't have faith in our current administration's ability/desire to keep the dollar under control. It's entirely possible that bullion prices will steadily rise...exceeding the coins' issue prices.

Seven years from now, I want to be one of the very few people (> 4223 at this point) that owns the complete Proof and Unc collection. The complete collection should sell for at least $100,000 (in 2016 money) and continue up from there...if the government doesn't confiscate them first.

 

I'll probably be one of the very few others who has the full set of proof and uncs in 2016 as well... and even if valued at around $100,000 at the time I just wonder how many folks will be in the market for a full set??? I can't imagine too many as I would think that price point rules out 99.9% of collectors.

 

Excellent point! You might have to break up the set...but that's what's cool about these coins being 0.5 Oz coins instead of 1.0 Oz coins. I gotta think there might be some rich, lazy dude out there that'll pay a premium for the complete set.

Btw, I just bought my MegaMillions tickets for tonight's drawing...$252,000,000...which I fully intend to win. Let me know when your set is complete and I'll make you an offer.

Seriously, though...can you imagine if a novice coin collector hit the lottery like that and went on an eBay spending spree?