Jovian and Herculean dynasty folles pattern exceptions in Siscia.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Fugio1, Mar 6, 2021.

  1. Fugio1

    Fugio1 Well-Known Member

    I recently acquired a IOVI CONS CAES follis of Diocletion from Alexandria. A couple of years ago, I acquired a HERCVLI VICTORI follis of Constantius also from the Alexandrian mint. Reverse images are below:
    IOVI reverse.jpeg
    hercvli victori reverse.jpeg
    I’m finally getting around to researching this interesting religious aspect of the first and second Tetrarchy, and I've observed some interesting patterns in these types apparently only in the mint of Siscia.

    Historical Summary:
    Shortly after Maximian’s promotion in 286 AD, Diocletian called himself Jovius (Jove) and Maximian was named Herculius (Hercules), signifying that they had been chosen by the the gods. Symbolically, Diocletian as Jove was the father of the gods who created imperial policy, and Maximian was the hero who carried out the policy. There are lots of related details about the these dynasties, the coinage and its historical context which have been discussed at great length in other posts including an excellent post by @Curtisimo , but my purpose here is to point out some interesting and unexpected variations in the AE coinage.

    In the first and second tetrarchy, the western empire was governed by the reigning Augustus and his Caesar of the Herculean dynasty. The Eastern empire was governed by the Jovian Dynasty. Here are the characters of this drama:
    Dynasty table.jpeg
    Prior to the coinage reform of 294 antoninianii exist of Diocletian with HERCVLI reverse types and Maximian with IOVI reverse types, but after the coinage reform, the Jovian and Herculean AE coinage types are generally found only for the emperors in their respective dynasties. This is a convention that seems logical and was carried out throughout the mints of the empire… Except at the mint of Siscia during the 2nd Tetrarchy where exceptions are found. Siscia was in the territory of the Herculean Severus II.

    [The following coins are not mine]

    Here is one of two example I have found of this rare follis of Galerius (Jovian) with HERCVLI type from Siscia, RIC 163b, photo credits to Jesus Vico, Sabasta 147, lot 291:
    Galerius herculi.jpeg

    Following is a follis of Constantius as Augustus with IOVI type, RIC (Siscia) 179a, 8.92g. RIC rates this as “Scarce”, but this is the only one I have found that is convincing. The other example was so heavily tooled it could have originally been anything. Photo credit to CGB.fr (web shop).
    Constantius IOVI siscia.jpeg
    RIC (Siscia) lists a few Folles types of Severus with a reverse IOVI type and Maximinus with HERCVLI type but these are rare and I have not found any documented examples to image. After the 2nd Tetrarchy the emperors from the different dynasties in different mints commonly struck both IOVI and HERCVLI types.

    It is possible that my research falls short here, but so far, I find no exceptions outside of Siscia and no exceptions during the first tetrarchy (after the monetary reform). The analysis involves only the AE - several exceptions from different mints exist in the post reform gold coinage. Please share your Jovian and Herculean type coins of the first and second Tetrarchy, especially if you have any of these exceptional varieties.
     
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  3. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    This is from my page on the Second Tetrarchy:
    http://augustuscoins.com/ed/tetrarchy/Second.html

    Galerius1HERCVLIVICTORI2035.jpg

    Galerius, during the Second Tetrarchy
    27-26 mm. 9.82 grams.
    IMP MAXIMIANVS PF AVG
    HERCVLI VICTORI
    VI
    SISA
    RIC Siscia 165b "305-6"

    This type is also issued with this field mark (VI in the left field) for Constantius as Augustus and Maximinus II as Caesar, which confirms that this is a Second-Tetrarchy issue and this "MAXIMIANVS" is Galerius, not Maximian.
     
  4. Fugio1

    Fugio1 Well-Known Member

    Beautiful example of an apparently rare combination.
     
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  5. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    Excellent post and observations regarding the symbolic use of Hercules and Jove in the first and second tetrarchy @Fugio1 . It was a very enjoyable read.

    I really enjoy the follii of the tetrarchy but in order to show a Jove reverse from the early emperors I have to show a pre-reform Antoninianus. This is one of my favorite coins of Diocletian because it was struck in the first few months of his reign before he raised Maximian to co-emperor and started down the path that would lead to the tetrarchy.

    BFFE6C7E-3C2E-497A-BEC7-38E0AA73F074.jpeg
    Roman Empire
    Diocletian, AD 284-350
    AE Antoninianus, Rome mint, 6th officina, struck AD 285-286
    Dia.: 24.73 mm
    Wt.: 3.55 g
    Obv.: IMP DIOCLETIANVS AVG. Diocletian radiate bust right.
    Rev.: IOVI CONSER-VAT AVG. Jupiter standing holding thunder bolt and scepter. XXIZ below.
    Ref.: RIC V:II 161
    Ex Dr. Walter Neussel Collection; Auktion GM 92, Lot 365 (Nov. 1998); Dr. Busseo Peus Nachf. Auktion 420, Lot 6051 (Nov. 2017)


    My example from the mint at Siscia is of the common Genius type but it is still one of my favorite Constantius I examples.

    EFC41E35-AD84-463B-9499-D6E8919C5CF0.jpeg
    Roman Empire
    Constantius I (as Caesar, AD 293-305).
    AE Follis, Siscia mint, 2nd officina, struck AD 295
    Dia.: 28 mm
    Wt.: 9.79
    Obv.: CONSTANTIVS NOB CAES Laureate head of Constantius to right.
    Rev.: GENIO POPVLI ROMANI /B /*SIS Genius standing left, holding patera and cornucopia.
    Ref.: RIC 90a


    In order to show Hercules and Jove reverse types in the follis denomination I have to go past the first and second tetrarchy to the time when the tetrarchy system was falling apart.

    This is one of my favorite coins. I like how your example in the OP shows Hercules holding the apples in from of his body almost like the scene happened just before or after the one below. For my write up see here.
    3A8CFFC3-DC9F-4CAF-83BD-4EE3ACAD583B.jpeg
    Roman Empire
    Maximinus Daia (AD 308 - 313)
    AE Follis, Antioch mint, struck ca. AD 313
    Dia.: 20.5 mm
    Wt.: 3.9 g
    Obv.: IMP C GAL VAL MAXIMINVS P F AVG; Laureate bust right
    Rev.: HERCVLI VICTORI; Hercules standing right, leaning on lions skin and club
    Ref.: RIC VI 170b, Scarce
    Ex FSR, lot 370 (Jul. 2018)


    These next two examples show Jupiter (Jove) as the preserver of both Constantine I and Licinius I. I am afraid Jove dropped the ball on one of these promises... My write up on the type here.
    11A3573D-1CC1-4C24-8D69-091CECF7113B.jpeg
    Roman Empire
    Constantine I, AD 306-337
    AE Follis, Cyzicus mint, 6th officina, struck ca. 313-315
    Dia.: 21 mm
    Wt.: 3.8 g
    Obv.: IMP C FL VAL CONSTANTINVS P F AVG; Laureate head right
    Rev.: IOVI CONS-ERVATORI; Jupiter standing left, holding globe surmounted by Victory in right hand, holding scepter in left hand; eagle holding wreath in beak at left; S // SMK
    Ref.: RIC VII 3
    Ex JAZ Numismatics


    0EE2DD63-C7B9-4699-82DF-CA85985C85B5.jpeg
    Roman Empire
    Licinius I
    AE Follis, Thessalonica mint, struck ca. AD 312-313
    Obv.: IMP LIC LICINIVS P F AVG; Laureate bust left
    Rev.: IOVI CONSERVATORI AVGGNN; Jupiter standing left, holding globe surmounted by Victory in right hand, holding scepter in left hand; eagle holding wreath in beak at left; / TS A
    Ref.: RIC VI 59
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2021
  6. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    Maximianus
    image.jpg
    Constantius I
    image(1).jpg
    Galerius
    image(2).jpg
    Maximinus II
    image(3).jpg
     
  7. Fugio1

    Fugio1 Well-Known Member

    Very impressive "AVG" antoninianus. For some time I've been looking for an example of the earliest coins of Diocletion. Yours is an inspiration.
     
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  8. Fugio1

    Fugio1 Well-Known Member

    @gogili1977 excellent collection of these types. I noticed the similar patina on the Maximianus and the Constantius. I wonder if these perhaps came from the same hoard?
     
  9. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    If you want the earliest of the early, you need an eastern mint "AVG" coin struck in 284 before he defeated Carinus. As far as I can tell, that restricts the list to just six RIC numbers (at least for aureliani/antoniniani):

    Antioch mint, issued in 284:
    324 1C, IOVI CONSERVATORI AVG, A to EΔ in field, XXI in ex. (common)
    326 1C, VICTORIA AVG, A to EA in field, XXI in ex. (rare)

    Tripolis mint, issued in 284:
    328 1C, IOVI CONSERVATORI AVG (receiving Victory from Jupiter), TR in field, XXI in ex. (common)
    330 1C, IOVI CONSERVATORI AVG (receiving wreath from Victory), TR in field, XXI in ex. (rare)
    332 1C, VICTORIA AVG (receiving wreath from Victory), TR in field, XXI in ex. (rare)
    333 3C, as previous (rare)

    1: IMP C C VAL DIOCLETIANVS P F AVG
    3: IMP C C VAL DIOCLETIANVS AVG
    C: Radiate, draped, and cuirassed bust r.

    I have four of them so far:

    RIC 324 (Antioch, common)
    RIC 324.jpg

    RIC 326 (Antioch, rare)
    RIC 326.jpg

    RIC 330 (Tripolis, rare)
    RIC 330.jpg

    RIC 333 (Tripolis, rare)
    RIC 333.jpg

    There must be some early issues at Cyzicus, but RIC doesn't identify any as having been minted only in 284.

    I also have an early western (Rome mint) quinarius with AVG:
    Screen Shot 2020-02-07 at 6.12.09 PM.jpg
     
  10. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    Thanks Fugio1. Maybe so, I bought them from two different sellers.
     
  11. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    This good thread deserves a bump and this post deserves a thumbs up... wait no thumbs up emoji :facepalm:. Okay then this a good excuse to use the panda I guess. :panda::panda::panda:

    Seriously though, thanks for breaking those out by the RIC number. That is a neat sub collection. Makes sense the earliest issues were in the east.
     
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  12. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Thanks, Curtis! I hoped this might be useful to someone. Maybe after I get RIC 328 I'll write a main post about these. I won't hold my breath about RIC 332, it could be a while.
     
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