I am just a dumb newbie-please forgive me

Ok, here's the question, please bear with me:

Have all US coins historically come to market either through the us mint (directly by either buying them at the physical mint or through the mail) or from coin rolls that have come from tellers over the counter at one of the banks - even the "uncirculated" coins that we buy?

Any other sources?

 

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In other, other words - where have uncirculated coins come from now and historically?

 

I would have to say either form bank roll or in more modern times, from the mint like you have said. A person could also pick up a coin in change that could be uncirculatd. Technicaly since it was involved in a transaction it would not be "uncirculated". but it does take a little bit for a coin to actually aquire wear so it could still be graded uncirculated. especially clad coinage.

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks.

Anyone else? is there another source other than bank rolls from a teller at the bank or directly from the mint?

 

You personally, can get rolls from dealers or auctions, but they get thier rolls from a bank or the mint.

 

People have collected coins through out history as they came out from the banks. For example, when the Flying Eagle cents came out, it was a big deal. I think the Philly mint or some bank nearby had an initial public offering for them. And the lines were long because there was a lot of hype about them. Everybody wanted to get their hands on some. Many who got theirs first (just like modern times), went to the end of the line with them and sold them at huge premiums to other collectors who might not have gotten any. Within minutes after obtaining them.

Sometimes entire dates of coins were hoarded in general. During the Civil war, nobody knew which side would prevail and people got nervous about giving up their silver and gold coins so a lot were hoarded during that time and they chose to use paper money instead. It's also why they had to have Civil war tokens because of the money shortage, primarily caused by hoarding. Many gold and silver coins of that time period didn't see the light of day again until the 1870s and 80s. At which point maybe some collectors got their hands on some and stashed them away again.

Before the 1930s, I don't think the U.S. mint offered a whole lot. So most coins would have went directly from the mint to banks and then dispersed to the public that way. If the public knew it would be the final or first issue for a series, a lot of times they would get hoarded as they were released.
Morgan dollars have their own story all together. In short, silver mining interests in the west lobbied congress to buy their silver because there was an excess. Despite the fact that there was no real demand for silver dollars in this country, the U.S. govt signed a bill into law to make millions and millions of Morgan dollars. Most of which never saw circulation and sat in mint bags for many decades. This is why there are so many MS and toned morgans because the canvas caused many of them to turn colors as they sat over the decades.
Eventually, the mints and banks didn't want to hold on to them any longer so they were sold to the public at face to get rid of them. Mainly for Christmas presents and collectors. They were still finding bags of them in the 1970s to get rid of. A huge number of them were melted by the Pittman Act and turned into Peace dollars. Many of which were probably MS-64,65 or better.

Some series' get very expensive in higher grades because nobody saw the need to hoard them for any reason so there aren't many high quality examples left.

Also realize that the actual original mintage figures shown in the Redbook are NOT what's left in existence today. On average, there's probably less than 50%, some far less, of original mintages left in existence today for most issues. Many coins have been melted down over time and used to make the next issue they came out with.

It also depends on your definition of uncirculated. I get about uncirculated (AU) 2008 coins in change all the time, despite the fact that they have circulated. Some 2008 and 2009 coins circulating in change could be pulled today and would probably still classify as BU examples. Some, not all, depending on the abuse they've taken.

I hope this helps.

 

Wow Vess1, that was fantastic. I have read it twice and will read it a few more times to internalize what you said. Very interesting history. Especially about the civil war and about how the original mintage figues in the red book can be off by as much as 50%. And I think that answers my question, but just to make sure, what you are saying in effect is that yes, with the exception of perhaps the Morgan dollars that were sold to the public directly from both mints and banks, and "specimen" coins that are sold through the mints, all other "ordinary" uncirculated coins have come from bank coin rolls? Is there any other source that you can think of? Thank you very much!

 

There was a time when the Mints struck coins to order. If you were a miner and you had a quantity of gold you could take your gold dust (or nuggets) to a Mint and they would refine it for you (for a fee). They would separate out the gold and silver and strike coins in whatever denomination you wanted using your gold and silver. (Silver is usually found with gold so when gold is refined from ore there is usually a bit of silver too.) The fee (at least for while) was 0.5% to strike coins using your gold or silver.

 

A good read, with lots of interesting history of the mint and coinage, look for "The US Mint and Coinage" by Don Taxay. Well worth the money.

 

All US coins originate at one of the Mint branches. Banks don't mint coins, so even bank rolled coins come from the Mint.

 

Here's a book review I gave a few months ago. I'd recommend this book to everyone here. I believe it's a must read. Very interesting:

http://www.cointalk.com/forum/t48336/

 

right, and so, ms-60+ coins have come to market (to dealers or collectors) either:

1) directly from the mint or
2) by someone going to a bank, purcahsing "rolls of coins", and preserving them rather than circulating them.

other than the rare instances of Morgans being sold directly etc. as stated above, is that correct?

Thanks a bunch - I'm a little hard headed. Too many years in the Navy.:headbang::headbang:

 

. . . and other than what Hobo has stated here. Thanks Hobo.

 

Thanks Vess1 - $19 new or $6 used on Amazon.

I just bought it. Thanks

 

Ok. You're making this too hard. Companies produce and ship blank planchets to the various mints. The mints press them with dies, create coins, and they end up falling off into huge bags that are hauled around with fork trucks. Somehow, they end up getting broken down and shipped out to banks around the country, 'as needed'.

For example here in 2009, with the bad economy, everybody has been cashing in all their change jars for cash. Some of which have been sitting around for decades. So there has been a huge influx of change to the banks so they won't order as many new coins from the mint. Which is why hardly anyone is seeing any new 2009 coins yet.
When the banks do need them, they'll place an order and the bank will receive rolls of coins from the mint.
Then you have businesses in cities and towns around America who need change for daily transactions. They will go to the banks and get freshly minted change for their cash registers.

I get paid by direct deposit. So when I go to the ATM, I don't get any change. I only get cash. I spend the cash at the businesses and in return, end up taking home change from the businesses.

In comparison, very few coins are ordered by the public directly from the mint for what's produced. Of course, many BU coins we collect today were ordered direct by a collector at some time. While many many more were probably just saved out of circulation by someone.

You have to realize fresh coins can stay in pretty good shape for several years. For example, not that you would but you could probably still find 2006, 2007 Lincoln cents that have been circulating for some time that could be pulled from circulation, sent to a TPG and get a MS62, MS63 grade. Maybe better.

Check out the ANA 6th edition grading book. Grades have no bearing on where the coins come from, or if they've been circulating or not. I get 2008 coinage in change once in a while that could probably still pass as a MS64. All the grade looks at is how original the coin is and damage, whether it was caused at the mint or in circulation. The higher grades take into account natural luster remaining.

Yes, the highest potential grade would be when they're straight from the mint, but more often than not, the minting and handling process at the mint itself causes damage that instantly drops the grade of most coins before they even leave the facility. Most circulating coinage starts out as a MS66-MS68 at best before they go into circulation. After two years of circulating, some may still pass as MS-65s depending on the luster remaining and how much they have circulated. Of course, as the years go by, the grades gradually drop as change is circulated more and more.

Nickels don't circulate that much. Quarters circulate the most, as being the most common difference you get back. It's true. I have a change bank that consists of 3 tubes that I dump all my change in. The quarters fill up the fastest. I have to start throwing them in an extra bag. The dime tube takes much longer to fill. And I don't think I've ever filled the nickel tube before I cashed it all in.

You should be able to find nicer old nickels in circulation than you will quarters for the most part. A five year old circulating nickel could still be 'mint state' condition, because of lack of circulation, although it has been out there.

 

Good to hear! :thumb: You'll love it. I'll probably read it again some day.

 

Thanks, Vess1, that was great. What has thrown me off (and probably others) as I learn about my new hobby is that MANY online sources state that uncirculated coins (ms-60+) have never been in the hands of the public. But as you just stated that is not necessarily true. Thanks a ton (of gold!)

 

"Have all US coins historically come to market either through the us mint (directly by either buying them at the physical mint or through the mail) or from coin rolls that have come from tellers over the counter at one of the banks - even the "uncirculated" coins that we buy?"

There are some interesting answers to the ops question, a good reason why I enjoy this site.

I would like to add one thing though, and that is early commemorative issues sometimes came to the general public through sales at expositions fairs and through authorized agents. These coins were intended to raise money for events and anniverseries of events. So that is another way that coins came into the marketplace.

 

No problem. Just realize that it can be true and an advertisement like that isn't necessarily trying to scam anyone. For example, many dealers on ebay started buying rolls of the modern, low mintage Kennedy halves, anticipating that people (like me) would pay a premium to get them for their sets some day down the road. So they bought the rolls from the mint and sat on them until buyer (me) comes along and pays $5-$10 a coin for coins from an 80's BU roll, that they might have paid 0.60 a coin for.

Most of the time, BU means it's coming from a newly opened mint roll. Usually BU from my understanding, means that they have not circulated but is a VERY loose, general term and that may not always be the case. While grades (AU-50, MS-60, etc..) are exact terms meaning the coin meets those criteria *when graded by a TPG*. Sometimes dealers will grade things themselves and it is normally in their favor. Which is why it's probably good to start out buying mainly slabbed coins to get a feel for what properly graded coins look like in hand, before debating a grade with a dealer.

 

I actually worked at the plant where the process was raw material to be shipped. READ THREAD CLEANING COINS