Featured You say PIETAS, I say PIAETAS....

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by maridvnvm, Oct 20, 2020.

  1. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    During the 8th and 9th emissions of Lugdunum under Probus the pietas reverse type was produced with two alternate spellings - PIETAS and PIAETAS. You will often see the PIAETAS coin sold as an error but it is more likely to be a spelling variation rather than an error. The PIAETAS spelling occurs over two issues and over multiple reverse dies and is generally as prolific as the PIETAS spelling variety.

    I have been gathering some of these over many years and have just tracked down a new addition to my collection, which gives me all the excuse I need to frag out some of my coins and share....

    Just for the sake of this thread I will combine the obverse legend varieties separated by dots..... which Bastien gives a separate id but RIC does not.

    Emission 8

    Obv:– IMP C PROBVS P F AVG , Radiate, cuirassed bust right
    Rev:– PIETAS AVG, Pietas standing left by altar, holding patera and box of perfumes
    Minted in Lugdunum (III in exe) Emission 8, Officina 3. Autumn to Late A.D. 281
    Reference:– Cohen 437. Bastien 359(dots), 360(no dots). RIC 96 Bust type F

    This was my first of the type that I bought almost 20 years ago

    [​IMG]

    Weight 4.36g. 22.70mm. 0 degrees

    Ex Langcroft hoard

    This also comes with the longer for mof the obverse legend

    Obverse Legend : IMP C M AVR PROBVS AVG
    Bust Type : Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right, seen from the rear
    References : RIC -, Cohen -, Bastien 357 (1 ex.)

    But I have yet to find one.


    Then there is

    Rev:– PIAETAS AVG, Pietas standing left by altar, holding patera and box of perfumes
    Mint – Lugdunum (III in exe) Emission 8, Officina 3. Autumn – End 281 A.D.
    Reference:– Cohen 435, Bastien 354. RIC 93 Bust type F

    Weight 4.59g. 23.01mm. 180 degrees

    [​IMG]

    Which also comes with the short form obverse legend

    Obv:– IMP PROBVS AVG, Radiate, cuirassed bust right
    Rev:– PIAETAS AVG, Pietas standing left by altar, holding patera and box of perfumes
    Mint – Lugdunum (III in exe) Emission 8, Officina 3. Autumn – End 281 A.D.
    Reference:– Cohen 436, Bastien 356 (5 examples cited). RIC 94 Bust type F (Scarce)

    Weight 4.16g. 22.59mm. 180 degrees

    [​IMG]

    Now on to Emission 9, where the officina mark occurs in the fields

    PIETAS

    Obv:– IMP C PROBVS • P • F • AVG, Radiate, cuirassed bust right
    Rev:– PIETAS AVG, Pietas standing left by altar, holding patera and box of perfumes
    Minted in Lugdunum (C in right field) Emission 9, Officina 3. January to August A.D. 282
    Reference:– Cohen 437. Bastien 413. RIC 121 Bust type F

    3.65 gms. 22.75mm

    [​IMG]

    Obv:– IMP C PROBVS • P • F • AVG, Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right, seen from the front
    Rev:– PIETAS AVG, Pietas standing left by altar, holding patera and box of perfumes
    Minted in Lugdunum (_ | C) Emission 9 Officina 3. January – August 282 A.D.
    Reference:– Cohen -. Bastien 412 (2 examples). RIC 121 var. Bust Type C (unlisted with this bust type in RIC)

    [​IMG]

    PIAETAS

    Obv:–IMP C PROBVS • P • F • AVG, Radiate, cuirassed bust right
    Rev:– PIAETAS AVG, Pietas standing left by altar, holding patera and box of perfumes
    Minted in Lugdunum (C in right field) Emission 9. Officina 2. January – August 282 A.D.
    Reference:– Cohen 435. Bastien 410. RIC 120 Bust type F

    [​IMG]

    Obv:–IMP C PROBVS • P • F • AVG, Radiate, cuirassed bust right
    Rev:– PIAETAS AVG, Pietas standing left by altar, holding patera and box of perfumes
    Minted in Lugdunum (Retrograde C in right field) Emission 9. Officina 2. January – August 282 A.D.
    Reference:– Cohen 435. Bastien 417 (2 examples cited). RIC 120 var Bust type F (unlisted with Retrograde C in right field in RIC)

    [​IMG]

    It also comes with

    Bust Type : Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right, seen from the front
    Officina Mark Position : Right field
    References : RIC -, Cohen -, Bastien 409 (2 examples)

    I am yet to find an example

    And finally my neweset addition. A short form obverse legend PIAETAS.

    Obv:–IMP PROBVS AVG, Radiate, cuirassed bust right
    Rev:– PIAETAS AVG, Pietas standing left by altar, holding patera and box of perfumes
    Minted in Lugdunum (_ | C) Emission 9. Officina 2. January – August 282 A.D.
    Reference(s) – Cohen 436. Bastien 411 (4 examples). RIC - Bust type F (Unlisted obverse legend, after RIC 120)

    4.16g. 22.86mm. 180 degrees

    RI 132yv img.JPG
     
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  3. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    This is strong evidence of linguistic change. In Lyon, by the reign of Probus, people apparently pronounced "pietas" with a diphthong: pee-ai-tas instead of pee-ay-tas.
     
    eparch, DonnaML, Sulla80 and 7 others like this.
  4. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..i agree with you & RC, it isn't a error..kool info & coins Marv...now i gotta recheck my Probus's out..:)
     
  5. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    A very interesting variation on PIETAS. Thanks for sharing.
     
  6. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    I know that some people don't like reviving an old thread but I thought it worthwhile to put a new coin in context.

    In the original post I shared a PIAETAS with the short IMP PROBVS AVG legend with C in the right field. I have now obtained another short legend variety but now with a retrograde C in the right field. This collection means that I collect based on the minute details such as whether the officina mark is retrograde or not.....

    Obv:–IMP PROBVS AVG, Radiate, cuirassed bust right
    Rev:– PIAETAS AVG, Pietas standing left by altar, holding patera and box of perfumes
    Minted in Lugdunum (_ | retrograde C) Emission 9. Officina 2. January – August 282 A.D.
    Reference(s) – Cohen 436. Bastien 418 (1 example cited). RIC - Bust type F (Unlisted obverse legend, after RIC 120)

    3.61g. 23.07mm. 180 degrees

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Thank you. I was about to ask that exact question and spelling.

    Is it a regional dialect?
     
    ominus1 likes this.
  8. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    Very interesting. I think if the irregular spelling was continued under Probus' successors, i.e. Numerianus or Carinus this would indeed point to changes in the pronunciation of Pietas. However, if it only occurred under Probus, it would more likely seem to have been a peculiarity of a certain celator.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
    eparch likes this.
  9. barnaba6

    barnaba6 Well-Known Member

    Very Interesting thread Martin! (as usual). I agree that PIAETAS was not an error and that both spellings (PIETAS AVG) and (PIAETAS AVG) were used at the time.
     
  10. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Those familiar with Classical Latin and its pronunciation know that circa the time of Cicero and Virgil the diphthong, AE was pronounced the same as the Greek AI as "eye". Those familiar with the later Italianate or ecclesiastical Latin know that the diphthong AE is spoken as English long A as in "day", the same as way Latin E was said both in Classical and Ecclesiastical Latin. Thus by late in the Third Century that switch may have been already under way and both AE and E had acquired the same sound, meaning that whichever way it was spelled it had the same pronunciation. If so there may have been two variant spellings late Third Century but the sound would have been the same, the English long A sound. By the way I can recall in one of my Latin classes from way back that our professor told us there was philological evidence that the change in the sound of Latin AE was already in evidence as early as Tacitus which would make it around 100 AD. Too bad we don't have more evidence like wall graffiti where posters often spelled their words using "invented spelling" which was a phonetic spelling that tell us better how the language was being spoken in the streets as it morphed its way to the Romance languages. A big thanks to the observant OP for noticing this bit of linguistic (as well as numismatic) evidence.
     
  11. manny9655

    manny9655 Well-Known Member

    Sometimes in inscriptions, you see alternate spellings in Latin to indicate the length of the vowel. I remember reading about this in Latin class in high school. For example, "paastores" instead of "pastores". But I don't have an answer here, the "e" in " "pietas" is short.
     
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  12. manny9655

    manny9655 Well-Known Member

    What you say may hold true if the E is long, but it isn't in this case. BTW, Greek sounds have changed also. Today the AI diphthong is pronounced like our short E. The changes began to occur in Byzantine times.
     
  13. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Yes, but so is the "i", according to White's Latin dictionary. Since Latin never puts the accent on the ultima (last syllable in a multi syllabic word) where does the accent fall in PIETAS if both are short vowels?
     
  14. manny9655

    manny9655 Well-Known Member

    In this case, on the antepenult. In words of 3 or more syllables, the accent falls on the penult IF it is long (the SYLLABLE, not the vowel). If the penult is short, then the accent falls on the antepenult. So, PI-e-tas.
     
  15. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Gratias tibi ago, magister.
     
    manny9655 likes this.
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