Featured An Unfair Comparison in Coin Photography: iPhone vs DSLR

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Orielensis, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Quite a few of the under $20 3 tube sets start with a 13mm tube and have contacts but there is no reason ever to shoot coins handheld. Some brands start at 12mm so this is not a certain tip as to whether they are 'auto' or not. Since there is no glass involved, the cheap ones will take as good pictures as the expensive Canon brand tubes. The stabilization in Canon and most cameras works on the X and Y axes but not Z (closer, farther) so it might not help as much as one might hope. Phones can be laid on a water glass or anything. You can even tell some phones to take a picture when you say a code word (shoot, cheese etc.). I consider shooting coins hand held a sign that the photographer really does not care about sharpness. Also, handheld, it is very hard to take both sides of the coin at precisely the same distance so one side may come out slightly larger than the other.
     
    Nathan B. and PeteB like this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the advice and the link, @dougsmit. I read the relevant parts of the guide with great interest and feel that I learned something.

    Also, my own enthusiasm for mirrorless cameras is somewhat mitigated by previous experience. Together with a photographically much more apt friend I "tested" a Canon EOS-M10 and M3 on a backpacking trip when they came out in (I think) 2015. He worked at a camera shop, thus could borrow the newest models for a review, and wanted to find out whether these cameras were suitable for outdoor photography. Especially the lack of a viewfinder turned out to be frustrating: doing landscape and nature photography with only a small touchscreen is very cumbersome. Also, the screen was prone to scratch and used up way too much battery.

    All of this is irrelevant for coin photography, though, and as I already said, I am now even thinking of buying a mirrorless camera for situations were taking my DSLR is impractical. For me, the true advantage of good mirrorless cameras over both hobby-level DSLRs and compact cameras, which I don't like that much, is that they have an APS-C sensor and can still be comfortably crammed into a tote or messenger bag. Especially when travelling, there are numerous situations where I don't want to have a large camera virtually screaming "tourist" hanging around my neck.

    Thanks for your questions! Just to answer:

    1. The DSLR was mounted on a stable tripod (this model) but not on a copy stand. I don't assume the difference between the two options is that great when all things are done properly. Yet, with a copy stand it's much easier to slightly adjust the distance between coin and camera, create an exact 90° angle between coin and camera, and to not cause the camera or coins to slightly move because of taking a step or touching the table. Unfortunately, as mentioned above, I don't have a copy stand at home, so I make do with a tripod.

    2. Yes, as Doug indicated above, my macro extension tubes have electrical contacts. Image stabilization, autofocus, etc. therefore work just as fine as they do without the extension tube.

    3. Just as you, I don't think resolution/number of megapixels is the main issue here. To post here, I reduced the size of all images, including the iPhone pictures. I'd rather assume that the differences in image quality are caused by a combination of (a) lens size, speed, focal length, and general quality, (b) sensor size, and (c) software including all sorts of automatic corrections of color, brightness, sharpness, etc.
     
  4. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    I started my photography wit a Kodak Brownies and Verichrome Pan film in the mid 1950's. Rangefinder 35 mm in the 60's, SLR's in the 70's, digital SLR's beginning in 2005. Since I was using Nikons and Canons as film cameras at the time, I could retain and use their lenses on the digital bodies (mostly). My main subject was railroad photography and not too much call for macro (or micro) lenses there.
    On occasion I did some macro photography of coins, even in film days, and with good lighting and lenses got excellent results. Only recently in the past few years have I gone to the cell phone and that was because it is so easy to get them on line and reproduced on sites like this one.

    Can I duplicate the fine images I could get from my SLR's from my cell phone? No, not quite, but good enough if I take my time. My avatar was taken with my cell phone and all of my images on this site are with my phone. What I have found is essential is holding that cell phone still when taking the image and this I do, simply, by placing four or five books onto a pile, place the coin to be imaged along side the pile, the cell phone on the top and one can then press down a bit on the phone which holds it steady as you activate the "shutter". As for lighting my preference is natural and filtered sunlight. Try a thin, filmy curtain on the window from which the sunlight enters onto the posed coin. When I photograph with no sun available I use two lamps near to each other, one fluorescent, one incandescent to create a blended light.

    Bottom line. Unless you are imaging for professional use, you can get images quite good enough, almost the equivalent of the DSLR, and just fine for purposes of displaying your coins on a site like Coin Talk.
     
    Nathan B. and Pellinore like this.
  5. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I had no use for the M series when it came out since I had already moved to full frame and was not moving back to a crop series that used different lenses. That changed with the release of the RP which is small and full frame. The problem is that Canon has not released small and cheap lenses for this obviously amateur model (the have the R for pros). I only use old EF lenses via the adapter. I hope Canon will come out with a R mount pancake lens to play down that huge lens on small camera look. They issued a 35mm macro which is too short for coins on full frame. I hope they correct that at some early date.

    The RP has a viewfinder with eye proximity sensor that turn it off when not up to your face that turns it off for sake of battery life. For coins, I use the articulated flip out panel.

    I own half a dozen tripods and never use them for coins. A solid stand made from a couple dollars worth of scrap wood is so much easier to use. I made one on request for one online member and mailed it to him only shortly before he passed away. I'm out of that business now. The postage was four times the cost of the materials. The light weight of mirrorless would allow a much lighter stand but I have not made one yet.
     
    Nathan B. and Clavdivs like this.
  6. Suarez

    Suarez Well-Known Member

    In every case your DSLR pic is the uncontested winner. You could get a lot better results from the iphone if you used the same lighting as you did with the camera. I might be wrong but I would guess with the camera you used a lamp on a tripod while the phone ones were taken handheld and sunlit. Not a fair fight. It makes the iphone look worse than it can actually perform even if in the end it can't hold a candle to a DSLR.

    Rasiel
     
    arnoldoe likes this.
  7. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Kitchen window or lamp?
     
  8. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

    Just kitchen window. Both iPhone and DSLR pictures were taken on cloudy February afternoons at the same spot and at about the same time of day with no additional light source. Thus I think it really is the camera that makes the main difference – the lighting situation was about the same for all pictures.

    Concerning the copy stand vs. tripod issue: I looked at the description and explanation of your photography set-up on your website more than once, Doug, and thought about building myself something similar. At the moment it's simply a California-caused space issue: for very understandable reasons, my wife is not that charmed by the idea of more or less continuously transforming either the dining or the coffee table of our small apartment into a DIY coin photography studio. But once we move into a geographically different and more spacious situation (likely in the relatively near future), this will become an actual project, and if I may, I might even bother you with some detail questions at that point.
     
  9. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I exclusively take pictures with an iPad, though I want to start using a legitimate camera in the near future.

    I’ve found that there is a very precise sweet spot in distance above the coin that produces the clearest pictures. The hardest part of taking pics is the lighting. I generally use overhead lights in my apartment, so I am at the mercy of what is installed. My last apartment had such crappy lighting that I could only photograph in the mornings when the walls were sufficiently lit to supplement the main light sources.

    The background HAS to be black. Anything else will “distract” the camera and cause colors and lighting to appear weird.

    Small and big coins were often problematic. The camera’s resolution was not good enough to take clear high-quality shots of small coins, and I had to move the iPad further away to accommodate large coins (with a decrease in clarity).

    Here is a sampling of my results. Some are better than others for the reasons above.

    F7423560-997C-45D9-84B6-FF7A3D896012.jpeg 9142B19B-0ED3-47AF-819C-15384EB64F89.jpeg FB65C713-F3AB-46FB-99BF-B630D904BB5F.jpeg 66F527A5-7002-4993-80A5-339DA1474E88.jpeg 92DF56D3-AC0D-4513-86E8-C6883539BF91.jpeg 8035C476-CBF2-422D-9102-14363D5F803E.jpeg 8EA72477-1D8F-421D-8C9A-06CCABBB60A1.jpeg F31AA2F6-22E2-4E53-BA69-AB9C35798F15.jpeg ECC9990A-EF14-471D-A5A1-CBAECB4AA4BF.jpeg 7910DD93-EF76-454B-A5FB-7CB780C06211.jpeg
     
    Nathan B., Ryro, TIF and 4 others like this.
  10. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    My 17 year old daughter saved up her money from her part time McDonald's job and bought herself a new iPhone 11 Pro Max... while I am not able to get within 3 feet of her new phone I was able to grab her "old" iPhone - which is the only way I ever get an upgrade.
    So tried a few shots with my "new" iPhone 8 plus.
    Although I think the phone can take some great images the results are hampered by the photographer. I really am terrible and screw up the lighting no matter what I do..
    However I will keep playing with it - it has lots of potential.
    New Try.jpg
    New Try.jpg
    New Try.jpg
    Newest.jpg
     
  11. Restitutor

    Restitutor Well-Known Member

    All three photographed with iPhone 11 Pro, fun to see how different they look!

    65A42512-5B1A-447C-9C4B-08DCBCE2327F.jpeg D27FB705-81F6-4196-9CBF-37A94B2DF195.jpeg 4F5C8D55-E505-458A-8AB1-8F8697AAFB4E.jpeg
     
  12. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    This is all about lighting, in my case.
    DSLR. When you use a digital on a copy stand. You at least get the option to play with the resolution, color, play with the distance position of the lighting. All without touching the coin.

    Bottom line, a good picture lies with the taker. At this day and age it is not which device you use.
     
    Nathan B., PeteB and dougsmit like this.
  13. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    There is no doubt about that... any coin bust I see - no matter what device I use, I will find a way to make that forehead shiny. It's uncanny.
     
  14. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    This is the big point. As I recall from elementary school science in the 1950's, any scientific study must limit the variables to have any chance of producing meaningful results. If you wish to compare the phone to the camera, you MUST use the same lighting for each. Anything else is a complete waste of time. I have never touched an iPhone and dislike coin photos made with microscopic sensors like those used in phones that I have experienced. Still, 90% of the phone and camera photos we see here on CT have faults that can not be blamed on the equipment.

    I have been asked to give a Zoom talk to a photo club in two weeks. To that end, I am in the process of making some images demonstrating what I see to be significant questions on coin photography. Below is one showing differences made by light direction. If all of those images strike you as the same, I have nothing left to say. We might not agree on which is best or if there is an intermediate that would improve either of the adjacent shots. The point is that coin photographers need to consider lighting direction and other qualities before they press the button.
    0setprobus7.jpg
     
  15. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    Ok... so what lighting set up gets me results close to your middle photograph?
    Is it a ring light or two lamps from opposite directions? I also suppose there is the angle and intensity of the light to consider... this is obviously something I have never grasped - so I apologize if I am asking silly questions..
     
    Nathan B. likes this.
  16. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    That is a ring light of the type sold to put on Stereoscopic microscopes. They are daylight balance and dimmable. The one I have just barely fits on my Canon 100mm macro with 58mm front. It would not fit on the new model 100mm IS since they enlarged the font to 67mm.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  17. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    That for me is all about contrast and sharpness.
    I would use a tube or an extender. Lighting a coin has no certain standards.
    You are the author.
     
  18. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    I think these were on my Iphone 004_0.JPG 0111.JPG
     
    Johndakerftw, Bing and Clavdivs like this.
  19. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Well-Known Member

    randygeki likes this.
  20. Denis Richard

    Denis Richard Well-Known Member

    As a professional numismatic photographer, and a coin lover, I can say I use Photoshop to make a coin look as accurate as possible. I don't think anyone is slimming the jowls of a Emperor's profile on a coin like they do with women's photos. So why do Pro coin photos look better?

    The tools and techniques I use allow me to capture more texture, detail, correct colour balance, contrast range and image depth than a cell phone or iPad can, and with professional editing tools applied, it seems people often mistake this superior level of capture as image "manipulation", as though the coin doesn't really look like that, simply because my system and techniques reveals things theirs don't.

    ANCJB1016201702016_a.jpg
    ANCJB0116201805061_a.jpg

    ANCJB092201701146_a.jpg
    ANCJB0116201805079_a.jpg
     
    Nathan B., Pickin and Grinin and Bing like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page