Featured From Lydia, Philadelphia: Dionysos and a spotted "panther"

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by DonnaML, Jul 8, 2020.

  1. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Were there separate words for "panther" and "leopard" in ancient Greek or Latin? Whether there were or not, it seems kind of senseless to me that numismatists and catalogues have continued (since at least as far back as 1809, the date of the Mionnet catalogue entry I posted) the universal use of an essentially meaningless term like panther -- which doesn't even exist as a separate species -- instead of leopard, especially when the animal is shown with spots!
     
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  3. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Here is the etymology section from the "leopard" article in Wikipedia:

    Etymology
    The English name 'leopard' comes from Old French: leupart or Middle French: liepart, that derives from Latin: leopardus and Ancient Greek: λέοπάρδος (leopardos). Leopardos could be a compound of λέων (leōn), meaning lion, and πάρδος (pardos).[11][12][13] 'Panther' is another common name, derived from Latin: panther and Ancient Greek: πάνθηρ (pánthēr);[12] it can additionally refer to the cougar or the jaguar.[14] The word λέοπάρδος originally referred to a Cheetah.[15]

    The generic name Panthera originates in Latin: panthera, which refers to a hunting net for catching wild beasts that were used by the Romans in combats.[16] The phonetically similar Sanskrit: पाण्डर (pând-ara) means pale yellow, whitish or white.[17] The specific name Latin: pardus refers to a male panther.[18] The word pardus is thought to originate from Ancient Greek: παρδάλωτός (pardalotόs) meaning spotted like a leopard.[19]
     
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  4. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Very attractive coin, @DonnaML , and nice write-up.

    I'm not too concerned with the semantics of "panther." The Greco-Roman concept of animal taxonomy wasn't scientifically accurate.

    Sort of. The term "panther" simply referred to any species of big cat that wasn't a tigris or a leo. The suffix -pard simply means "spotted." A leopard is a "spotted leo." I have discussed this previously.

    My favorite "panther" coin is this provincial from Pautalia featuring Dionysus riding on a panther:

    [​IMG]
    Faustina II, AD 147-175.
    Roman provincial triassarion, 6.34 g, 23.4 mm, 7 h.
    Thrace, Pautalia, AD 161-175.
    Obv: ΦΑVCΤΕΙΝ-Α CΕΒΑCΤΗ, draped bust of Faustina II, right; band of pearls around head.
    Rev: ΟVΛΠΙΑC-ΠΑVΤΑΛΙ-ΑC, Dionysus seated on panther walking, r., resting r. arm on panther, holding thyrsus.
    Refs: RPC IV 8811; Ruzicka 99.
    Notes: Double die match to RPC IV 8811(4) = Ruzicka 99(4) = Vienna, Kunsthistorisches Museum 8775.
     
  5. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I see your point, but whatever the Greeks and Romans may have called the animals depicted on particular coins -- which we don't really know, after all -- that doesn't mean that we can't or shouldn't call a leopard a leopard when it obviously is one, instead of a panther or even, as the animal on my coin was described by Imhoof-Blumer in 1897, a "Gefleckter Panther" (spotted panther).
     
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  6. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ...nice leopard...:D..
     
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  7. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    The reverse of this coin under Volusian shows Dionysus riding a panther backward. It was struck at Samaria. Rosenberg 185.

    VolusRos 185  Samaria.JPG VolusPanther  Dionysus.JPG
     
  8. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    Struck under Antiochus VI, the reverse of the following Seleucid coin has a standing panther raising right paw. SNGIs 1784.

    Antch6Panth  SNGIs1784.JPG AntihVI Pt R.JPG
     
  9. eparch

    eparch Well-Known Member

    I think describing leopards as panthers is no more than an irritating convention.
    Here is my example - the leopards have large spots on their necks
    and some on their hindquarters

    upload_2020-7-9_8-56-10.png
    Caracalla Æ29 of Seleucia ad Calycadnum, Cilicia. After AD 212.

    AV K•M•A• ANTΩNINOC, laureate bust right / [CEΛEYKE-ΩN] TΩN ΠPOC KAΛYKA Δ ΝΩ, Dionysos standing to right in biga drawn by two leopards , holding thyrsos in right hand and, kantharos in left, from which he pours wine over the head of one of the panthers which is turned back to left; to right, Silenos kneeling facing, his head turned to left and his right hand outstretched to catch some falling wine.

    SNG France 986; SNG Levante 746 = SNG von Aulock 5830.

    13.17g, 29mm, 6h.
     
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  10. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    Great coin and nice write up @DonnaML

    I have a hemidrachm from Antiochos VI with a panther holding a broken spear in his mouth. Antiochos VI was known as Dionysos Epiphanos, the Manifested Dionysos, hence the connection with the panther on the reverse.

    [​IMG]
    Antiochos VI Dionysos, 144-142 B.C. AR Hemidrachm (15 mm, 1.80 g, 1 h), Antiochia on the Orontes mint.
    Obverse: Radiate and diademed head of Antiochos VI Dionysos to right. Rev.
    Reverse: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ / ΑΝΤΙΟΧΟΥ - ΕΠΙΦΑΝΟΥΣ / ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΥ Panther standing left, right foreleg raised, holding broken spear in mouth; above, ΣTA.
    Reference: SC 2004.
     
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  11. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    We see what we want to see. I believe we can go too far applying modern nomenclature to animals drawn by people whose degree and source of inspiration is unknown. In my language 'panther' means 'large cat'. A row of dots could equally well represent shaggy fur as color markings unless they follow a set pattern suggesting one species more than just dots.
    My nickel is of no use due to condition.
    og1290bb1600.jpg

    This Chach cat of central Asia is too stylized to identify the species but is sold as a Snow Leopard because that animal would have been known where the coin was made rather than anatomic detail.
    ou4370bb2533.jpg

    Modern 'scientific' use shows the generic nature of Panthera. Our 'lion' is Pantera leo.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthera
     
  12. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    I have no coins of ancient Philadelphia to address @DonnaML 's question. I do have a very strange legendary animal to show. Does anyone think it is a "legendary" Greek panther, or Cerberus, or an unknown monster?

    51199.l.jpg
    ASIA MINOR. Uncertain. Diobol (5th century BC). 11 mm. 1.08 g.

    The cataloger thought this small coin shows a winged goat and a panther.

    The animal on the reverse is why I am showing it. This creature has snakes for hair! It seems to be a "gorgon panther".

    Researching it, I considered it might be Cerberus, the three-headed dog who sometimes has a mane of snakes. (e.g. this kylix, this hydria).

    Here are a few other examples:
    - CNG 73, September 2006, lot 419. (no snakes). The CNG cataloger wrote “This interesting coin appeared on the market alongside a number of coins of western Asia Minor. The types, though, are unknown for any mint in this area. Most significant is the winged goat, an eastern type that would likely place this coin during the Achaemenid period in Asia Minor.”
    - Classical Numismatic Group, e-Auction 334, September 2013, lot 157
    - VAuctions, Triskeles auction 29, September 2019, lot 26 (obol)

    I was unaware of a Greek mythical panther. Does anyone have any vase or mosaic photos of such a creature before the Medieval period?
     
  13. medoraman

    medoraman Well-Known Member

    FYI, I searched a few hundred images of the Bactrian nickel issues last night Doug. I didn't see any hint of one with spots. Bummer, it would have been a cool subtype.
     
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  14. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    That is such a cool coin, @Ed Snible ! Thanks for posting it. Really nice!

    Amazing reverse... I agree with the logic of Cerberus. Very interesting.
    I would be incredible, though, if you did find a rare creature, ie the Snaked-Mane Leopard!
    upload_2020-7-9_9-52-52.png
     
  15. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    The spread makes me think of a scalp rather than an intact head.
     
  16. medoraman

    medoraman Well-Known Member

    Its supposed to be a lion, right? Viewed from top of the head, so the mane is visible both on top and the sides.
     
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  17. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Ordinarily I might agree with you, but not in this case. The problem with your argument is that there's really nothing the animal on my coin could be other than a leopard: there are only five kinds of "big cats," and the same five are the only members of the genus Panthera: lions, tigers, leopards (including the black panther, which in the Greek and Roman context was simply a black leopard), snow leopards, and jaguars. (Traditionally, there are actually only four "big cats" -- lion, tiger, leopard, and jaguar -- because they're the only four cats able to roar. Snow leopards cannot.)

    The animal on my coin isn't a lion. (Yes, it could theoretically be a lioness, but I've never seen a portrayal of a big cat covered with spots that anyone even tried to identify as a lioness, or with respect to which a claim was made that the spots simply represented "shaggy fur." Have you ever seen a wolf portrayed with spots to represent shaggy fur? I don't think so. The celators knew how to portray fur when they wanted to.)

    It isn't a tiger, either. The Greeks and Romans didn't know about jaguars, and I doubt they knew about snow leopards. That leaves leopards, with they were very familiar. (The Beazley archive pottery database at Oxford has more than 350 examples of classical pottery showing leopards, i.e., spotted big cats., a number of them with Dionysos. There are more than 1,300 examples in the database showing "panthers," and the vast majority seem to be of black-colored panthers -- also leopards, in fact.)

    And then there are all the vases, mosaics, frescoes, etc. -- a couple of them posted on this thread -- specifically showing and associating Dionysos with big cats that clearly appear to be leopards. Just like on my coin. Not a coincidence, I think. To me, it's even harder for paintings than for coins to argue that those renditions of spotted big cats are anything other than leopards, or that the spots somehow represent something else. The resemblance to actual leopards is too close, except perhaps in the fact that they're sometimes larger than life, as other animal portrayals can be in classical art. I think the specific association of leopards with Dionysos in visual art -- especially when taken together with the many portrayals in classical art of satyrs and maenads wearing leopard-skins in performing their rites -- is the only further proof necessary that a large cat covered with spots, shown on the same coin as Dionysos and carrying his traditional thyrsos, is, in fact, a leopard and not just some vague, unidentified, "panther."
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
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  18. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I am unaware of it too, except for the mention in that unusually poor Wikipedia article illustrated with a mosaic or painting of Dionysos with a leopard. As I said earlier in this thread, it says nothing specific whatsoever about the pre-Medieval period, and I haven't found anything other than New Agey-type websites with lots of woo and no actual citations to classical mythology. So I'm rather skeptical that there was such a specific animal as a "mythological panther" in classical mythology with the supernatural powers mentioned in that article. Especially one covered with spots like a leopard that wasn't actually a leopard! Yes, some of the leopards portrayed with Dionysos are larger than life, and yes, I wouldn't be surprised if the ancients had inaccurate notions about leopard life nd behavior, but the same was true of a lot of other animals.

    I have no idea what the animal is on that coin. Panther? Cerberus? Lion? Have you tried looking for portrayals of different kinds of animals in the Beazley archive to see if you can find anything similar? See https://www.beazley.ox.ac.uk/index.htm
     
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  19. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    I have one much like this, maybe you like to see it, though the picture is not very good:
    3294 panther ct.jpg

    Here's the description gleaned from the internet; I can't check Ziegler a.o.:

    AE27 Valerian (253-260), 253/4. Anazarbos in Cilicia. Obv: AVT K Π ΛIK OVAΛEPIANOC CE. Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right. Rev: ANAZAPBOV / Γ - Γ / ET BOC A M K. Dionysos seated left on panther (leopard, spotted!) crouching right. 27 mm, 14.62 gr. ET BOC = Year 272 = 253/4. F-VF. Ziegler, Kaiser 827; SNG Kopenhagen 56. Cf. cat. CNG N.McQ. Holmes nr. 766.
     
  20. Jochen1

    Jochen1 Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I don't understand the discussion about whether it's a leopard or a panther. I had learned that leopard and panther are synonyms and that the black panther is a leopard with melanism.

    Jochen
     
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  21. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Well, the main point of my post was that the panthers depicted on Roman coins are leopards, and that we might as well call them leopards when they're portrayed as covered with spots. Because as used in English, panther isn't really a synonym for leopard: the word is used only for melanistic leopards (and jaguars in the Americas), which are commonly called "black panthers." It's not used for big cats with spots and light coats; those animals are always called leopards. Calling them panthers instead of leopards just causes confusion. I think that "panthers" on Roman coins that don't have any spots, but aren't lions or lionesses, are probably supposed to be black panthers.
     
  22. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Since leopard literally means "spotted lion" in Greek, the term in ancient times referred to spotted big cats in particular. The Greeks and Romans used panther to refer to any big cat that wasn't a lion or tiger, spotted or with melanism. Leopards formed a subset of panthers in Greek and Latin, i.e. panther was the more inclusive term. That's not the case in modern English.

    Donna's point seems to be that since we speak modern languages and use these modern languages to describe our coins, we should use the terms in a modern way.
     
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