Featured Boars, sows, and pigs of the Roman Republic and Empire

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by DonnaML, Jun 17, 2020.

  1. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    From the very large (see my recent "My First Sestertius" thread) to the very tiny: I saw one or two of these posted in this thread and elsewhere, and decided that I wanted one:

    Mysia, Kyzikos, AR Diobol, ca. 450-400 BCE. Obv. Forepart of boar left; to right, tunny upwards. Rev. Head of roaring lion left within incuse square. Seaby No. 3846 [Sear, David, Greek Coins and their Values, Vol. 2: Asia & Africa (Seaby 1979)]; Von Fritze II, Group II, No. 9 (p. 36) [Von Fritze, H., "Die Silberprägung von Kyzikos" in Nomisma IX (1914), at pp. 34 - 56]; BMC 15 Mysia 108-113 [Wroth, Warwick, A Catalog of the Greek Coins in the British Museum, Vol. 15, Mysia (London, 1892) at pp. 34-35]; SNG BnF 361-366 [Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, France, Cabinet des Médailles, Bibliothéque Nationale, Vol. 5, Mysia (Paris 2001)]. 10 mm., 1.22 g., 6 h.

    Mysia, Kyzikos, Boar-Lion diobol, jpg version.jpg

    (I know that people have posted plenty of other coins here that are quite a bit smaller, but this is certainly the tiniest coin I have, ancient or otherwise!)

    Here's the page from Von Fritze II with No. 9 described:

    Von Fritze II p. 1 (No. 9).jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
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  3. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Great find, Donna, very nice DiObol.

    I refrained from posting mine, as it is a HALF-Pig...

    [​IMG]
    Mysia Kyzikos AR Hemiobol 480-450 BCE 0.4g Boar-Lion retrograde K Sear 3850
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
    octavius, Carl Wilmont, Bing and 2 others like this.
  4. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I'm curious: I see the weight, but what's the diameter of your coin?
     
  5. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    approx 8-9mm
     
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  6. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Interesting that yours is only 1-2 mm. less in diameter than mine (8-9 mm. vs. 10 mm.), but weighs only one-third as much (0.4 g. vs. 1.22 g.) Perhaps it's a lot thinner?
     
  7. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Even when you review ACSearch, diameter / weight correlations are not always consistent. This starts out as a small piece of metal before being struck. The hammering would be inconsistent between workers. Flattening would be inconsistent.
     
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  8. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    In theory, of course, mine would have been valued at 4x yours -- a diobol vs. a hemiobol. So the greater weight doesn't surprise me; after all, there had to be some way for people to distinguish the denominations of their coins absent marks of value. It's the fact that they're so close in diameter that surprised me, although of course there's something of a limit to how much smaller they could reasonably have made yours.

    Speaking of marks, is that an "O" above the shoulder of your boar? I know that some of these coins had control marks.
     
  9. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Are you meaning the circle above his brow, or a mark above his brush? My coin is not in hand. Over the next few weeks I will have my coins nearby.
     
  10. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Circle looks like a lazy die-cutter's version of the boar's ear.
     
  11. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I mean the circle above his brow, to the left of his brush. There also seems to be some kind of mark above the lion's snout.
     
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  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Circle looks like a lazy die-cutter's version of the boar's ear.
     
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  13. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    This is the original attribution from the Seller: @red_spork when he was re-focusing his collection.

    Mysia, Kyzicus, AR hemiobol, (0.4g) 480-450 BC. Obv: Forepart of running boar left, tunny fish behind upward. Rev: Head of roaring lion left within incuse square. Sear 3850.
     
  14. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Ah, the mess above my lions snout is a retrograde K. I have seen star, facing lion, and retro K on other HemiObols. Thanks for the catch. I will amend to add my device.
     
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  15. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Sounds like No. 15 or No. 16 in Von Fritze II, both of which have a retrograde K on the reverse:

    Von Fritze II p. 1 (No. 9).jpg
     
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  16. Bob L.

    Bob L. Well-Known Member

    Just an FYI for anyone who may be interested. The August 1990 issue of The Celator had an interesting article about the origin of the piggy bank (the earliest known example was excavated in 1908 in Pompeii) and, more broadly, the importance of pigs to the ancient Romans. Sure, aqueducts, concrete, Roman Numerals, and plumbing were decent inventions. But, piggy banks - now that's something!

    http://community.vcoins.com/celator-vol-04-no-08/
     
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  17. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Thank Bob.

    Interesting that they found a bank with a pig on it, but the article kinda implies that is the origin of piggy banks. I feel they were reaching. Rather, the Bee Hive design seemed like it was their banks. Someone just so happened to put a pig on THEIR bank. Cool story though.
     
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