Featured Ancient ... but not a coin! Artifacts thread! Post 'em!

I also doubt your dice are genuine. I have only ever seen genuine dice with the dot-and-ring design, not plain rings.

Genuine die are also aged items. You need to examine the bone and see that it truly has patination from age, and not from some dye, etc.

At a Numismatica Wien show I once saw a dodgy dealer pull out a huge bag of "Roman dice". The bag was nearly head-sized. The dice all looked good with the right eye-and-ring designs. They had been carved recently in SE Europe from animal bone and had been "aged" by being dyed in strong tea and buried in mud.

So I would be very wary of any die not bought from a reputable dealer unless you know how to validate genuine ancient bone items....

SC

 

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Thanks otlichnik.

This was probably an ebay find. My brother started collecting about a year after I started. He ventured out on his own for the first couple of purchases. But, I then introduced him to Vcoins and he was good after that.

I've been trying to find a dice like this, but, I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for because most fake Roman dice are going to look similar to the real thing. This, clearly is not a Roman dice, nor is it probably all that ancient.

Thanks everyone!

Erin

 

@Johndakerftw , here is an excellent website with a great deal of information about fake antiquities of many kinds: http://www.collector-antiquities.com/real-or-fake/1.html. And with some photos of genuine Roman dice in its own shop; see http://www.collector-antiquities.com/shop/gallery.html?pcat=39&vitem=3126; http://www.collector-antiquities.com/shop/gallery.html?pcat=39&vitem=323; http://www.collector-antiquities.com/shop/gallery.html?pcat=1&vitem=3745. (At the last link, three of the five pictured pairs of dice are still for sale.)

Another pair of assuredly genuine Roman bone dice for sale, although I think the price is astonishingly high: http://www.hixenbaugh.net/gallery/detail.cfm?itemnum=7211

 

Thanks so much, Donna!

Man, there are so many fakes out there, it's scary.

If I had the money, I'd totally dive more into antiquities. I browsed through the shop and saw a lot of things that I'd love to have. By the way, your antiquity collection is fantastic!

Hopefully, my bro will replace his dice for a legit Roman dice someday.

Erin

 

You're very welcome, Erin.

Which is why it's at least as important for antiquities as for ancient coins to buy only from reputable dealers. And don't forget that it's a lot easier and less time-consuming to create superficially convincing fakes of small objects like dice, rings, fibulae, scarabs, seals, and small amulets in general, than it is to create a convincing fake of say, a life-size marble head or entire statue! So just because an object is small and one might think it wouldn't be worth the trouble to fake, doesn't mean it's real.

Donna

 

Yes, and a provenance is very important.

A major problem over the past decade has been the theft of artifacts in Syria, Iraq, Yemen. Afghanistan and other conflict zones by various warring factions, including ISIS. Many of the antiquities were pillaged from museums and archaeological sites, and represent no less than the destruction and theft of cultural heritage - a very disturbing trend.

Also, once an object, be it a coin, ancient Roman dice, bronze figurine, etc. provenance and historical context is lost. Of course the object does retain value, but if we are trying to understand past civilizations, and how people lived, our efforts are deterred to a great extent. It is possible to attribute an Attic tetradrachm to a given period, but understanding where it came from, how it was found, the nature of the hoard (were there other types?) and how the hoard was stored or deposited is often lost forever.

 

Of course, that's akin to the argument made by those who would like to prohibit the private ownership of ancient coins and antiquities. I'm sure that's not your position! That said, I would be very wary at this point of purchasing any ancient Near Eastern antiquities -- particularly Sumerian or Old Babylonian -- without a provenance going back before 2000 or so. Anything that isn't fake is quite possibly looted.

 

No, I am not saying that there should be a prohibition on the private ownership of antiquities. What I am saying is that the process of discovery and removal often results in the loss of archaeological information.

I do find the destruction of archaeological sites very disturbing. As I read recently, someone remarked that ancient Syria is now dead, and that is very true. The loss is irreplaceable and the human suffering staggering.

 

I always say that the ideal system is something like the British Portable Antiquities Scheme, which preserves both provenance and archaeological data along with the right to own antiquities. It is the most sensible compromise for both sides – and frankly, I don't think anyone who truly values the past should be arguing against preserving provenance and archaeological data, anyway!

As for my Gandharan fragment, @robinjojo, it's about 3.5 inches, or 9 centimeters tall. And since it came from an old estate, I don't have to worry about who my money went to.

 

In time of Corona, we all need entertainment. I've been offered this very charming engraved stone for sale. I can't resist it but also I can't afford 10 percent of its value. After long self wondering, nearly a week, I abstained normally. But also, I thought why not sharing this ancient piece of art among my coin-friends ? Hope I'm doing right. Look..

 

Can you please identify it for us?

 

Agree. I think 1980-90s is the best time to buy Near Eastern antiquities. I regret selling my partial Sumerian cuneiform cone years ago. Can't find replacement now.

 

@DonnaML . As I said ..I didn't buy it. I just kept the photos among other very interesting photos. As for the identification, well the naked woman is holding a bow, and there's a dead or shot animal down to the left, as you can see. So I thought she might be a huntress, the like of Diana, just for example. But indeed.. What do I know? The ancient artistry seems so developed on this stone. Personal opinion..

 

I wonder if it's actually ancient. Looks somewhat more like a 15th or 16th century piece. At least, I doubt it is classically antique

 

Ex: Praefectus Coins, John Anderson

 

This one is similar to lordmarcovan's ushabti. Ex Johnathan Kern.


All things ancient.



Phoenician glass bead 52mm., 45.6g.

And my other ancient passion.

 

Faience Ushabti - 27th Dynasty or Later Style (525 - 332 BC)

Ushabti wearing tripartite wig and false beard and carrying a hoe and pick. Seed sack slung over left shoulder. T-Band of hieroglyphic inscription spanning the waist and continuing down the front of the leg case. Back pillar. 12 cm long by 3.1 cm wide by 2.2 cm deep.

 

@Carl Wilmont , very impressive! Here are a couple of my own ushabtis, from earlier in this thread:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/an...ts-thread-post-em.307997/page-18#post-4226786

 

Here's something I haven't shared because I can never get a good photo of it that shows the detail. In most photos the multi-surfaced and colored patina usually take the forefront rather than the great details. Even here I had trouble getting focus on the ring rather than my fingers. Anyway, it's an ancient ring showing Alexander as Hercules/Heracles.

Roman Hercules/Heracles Ring Ex. Donald Jackson Collection