Featured How Bad Was Nero?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by kevin McGonigal, May 13, 2020.

  1. Cachecoins

    Cachecoins Historia Moneta

    I remember when I first became obsessed with Roman history. It was after readingi I, Claudius by Robert Graves, a great book indeed. I was working in the college library that has a full set of the expansive works of Cassius Dio and other Roman historians so I began reading them. I then began reading modern biographies by historians of our time. I then got a history degree. What I learned along the way is that it is just as important to examine the sources , especially ancient ones, as it is to examine the subject.

    I used to read trash history with titles like 'Mad Monarchs' and what not until I realized that those were worthless junk only looking to sell books by regurgitating the worst things ever written about the subjects with no analysis. One in particular I noticed had spelling errors and misattributed images.

    I remember reading a biography of Caligula called 'Caligula: The Corruption of Power by a very good historian Anthony Barrett. The bibliography, notes and references and multiple appendices were extensive including coins and every inscription about him known. It was not as much entertaining as it was a bit tedious but also enlightening about the real historical process and how hard it is to make clear what is true, probable, possible, unlikely or almost certainly untrue. Ancient historians did little to clarify these things for the reader.

    I walked away from reading that with a realization that the job if the historian is not to entertain but to make sure that the subject is thoroughly researched and every source, from coins, statue inscriptions, and every word written about the subject by contemporary, near contemporary, primary, secondary and tertiary sources are examined and each bit of information is vetted and clearly defined as to it's relevance and veracity.

    As for Nero, I would say that there are very good works dedicated to his life and most would say that he is problematic to assess with any certainty. It is not wrong to examine sources as with Nero, most were not contemporary and those who were close may have been highly biased and of course they would be the ones used as sources down the line.

    Nero, and even more so Caligula, was more popular more with the people than the Senate, which generally seemed to hate him, and certainly the Senate was still in a state where many envisioned a day when the emperor would be eliminated and they would retake their rightful power as heads of state.

    Does this mean they were good men who were simply maligned? Not at all, most biographers would say they generally deserve the bad reputation they gained and did serious damage to the pricipate. Where there is smoke there is probably at least some flame if not a blaze. However I don't think many historians give much credence to the fire while he fiddled story.

    One serious problematic aspect of his story is Nero as a persecutor if Christians. Nero was born in 37, shortly after the death of Christ and of course died in 68. His rule, 54 to 68, began just about 29 years after the death of Christ. Tacitus was a little 8 year old patrician during the great fire and Suetonius would not be born for another 3 year...after Nero's death.

    It is quite likely that by the time they were writing, Christians were a little better known but at the time of Nero's reign it is very likely he knew little to nothing about them and even Tacitus and Suetonius seem to have a tenuous grasp as to what a Christian was. It is hard to say who Nero punished or what he knew and how clear the concept of a Christian was to any of them, let alone that he put many if them to death. It is more likely they were Jews who were then confused for Christians down the line. Its difficult to believe there were many Christians at all in Rome at the time since that religion was still in it's earliest of days with few worshipers.

    Not to ramble on but I tend to agree with the characterization that he was more likely a spoiled fickle prince with a large but fragile ego who neglected his duties and manipulated the people around him, wanted to be revered even if it was through fear and bullying., I think the time for rehabilitating him has past, he was not a good ruler by any measure both ancient or modern but his popularity was driven, much like Caligula, in the ancient world by his ability to pander to the masses (who did not write biographies) and to modern readers because we love an over the top villain and in Christian sources, he is presented as a two dimensional villain and a scourge of God.

    However I did love the portrayal of Nero by Peter Ustinov in Quo Vadis even though I have a feeling it is quite off base...all the same...love it

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
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  3. EWC3

    EWC3 (mood: stubborn)

    Puts me on the spot Doug. Brings to my mind something that rude fellow William Clinton tended to say around 1992. Instead I will quote the more sophisticated idea of Ibn Khaldun, in his “Introduction to the History of the World” - that what he was trying to get at was the “inner meaning of history”. And in so far as coins assist us in understanding the ‘inner meaning of history’ – it is their own inner meaning - the metal and its weight – that I think comes first.

    Ha! You see. The tankas of Alauddin are so common even people who do not know it have one! Rather good too – full mint and date! Delhi 714 (I hasten to add the reading is due to the kindness of my talented wife).

    I remain very interested in Roman history – but – its “inner meaning”. I think Nero perhaps shared my interest? Why else would he promote Petronius, who wrote of the civil war:

    Nor less in Mars's Field Corruption swayed,
    Where every vote was prostitute to gain;
    The People and the Senate both were sold.
    E'en Age itself was deaf to Virtue's voice,
    And all its court to sordid interest paid,
    Beneath whose feet lay trampled Majesty.
    E'en Cato's self was by the crowd exiled,
    Whilst he who won suffused with blushes stood,
    Ashamed to snatch the power from worthier hands.
    Oh! shame to Rome and to the Roman name!
    'Twas not one man alone whom they exiled,
    But banished Virtue, Fame and Freedom too.
    Thus wretched Rome her own destruction bought,
    Herself the merchant, and herself the ware.
    Besides, in debt was the whole Empire bound,
    A prey to Usury's insatiate jaws;
    Not one could call his house, or self, his own;
    But debts on debts like silent fevers wrought,
    Till through the members they the vitals seized.
    Fierce tumults now they to their succor call,
    And War must heal the wounds of Luxury
     
  4. Cachecoins

    Cachecoins Historia Moneta

    One of the most entertaining reads from Roman literature was the dinner with Trimalchio. Possibly second only to the Satires by Juvenal in my humble opinion.
     
  5. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    Look at their portraits for insight in to what kind of character these emperors likely possessed.

    Guys like Augustus, Pius, Hadrian, Trajan, M Aurelius etc.(while stern) looked for the most part as honorable dudes.

    Nero - looked like a pompous meathead jerk. Caligula? - a spoiled sociopath rich kid that likes to torture animals. Domitian? - Schoolyard bully. Commodus - Vain, narcissistic D.B. Tiberius? - Evil incarnate.

    Nero was a megalomaniac, yet also extremely insecure. He didn't even want to be emperor, yet when given the title, he relished it. If anyone wants an idea what Nero was like, one only has to look at the current POTUS... So craving of attention and absolutely incompetent.

    Augustus found Rome made of clay and left it in marble. Nero left it in ashes, literally and figuratively.
     
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  6. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    This an excellent piece of analysis. I see you have made getting a degree in history a worthwhile accomplishment. I am certain that one of the benefits of studying history is that it teaches one that "who" is reporting is as important "what" it is they are reporting, a skill we could all use when contemplating what it is that is reported to us. By the way, on the Christian's in Nero's Rome. I recall reading somewhere that the author of the book, a biography of Nero, suggested that the role of the early Christians in and their persecution from the fire of 64AD might have been an interpellation by a later Christian copyist for didactic purposes and once into an early text it remained there to be copied for centuries to come without ever being questioned. Perhaps. Anyway, excellent analysis on your part here.
     
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  7. Cachecoins

    Cachecoins Historia Moneta

    Thank you for the kind words. Indeed interpolation, Christian or otherwise, is unfortunately quite common and frustrating to historians who seek the truth. The works of Josephus regarding Jesus is a prime example of this.
     
    DonnaML likes this.
  8. Ray Jackson

    Ray Jackson Member

    Along with a degree in history, i relish history and wish i could maintain a full library in my head, let alone on my bookshelf. My primary interest has always been US history, and coins, as well. However, i love history in general and thoroughly enjoyed reading your historical write up. Not too long ago i was pinned to the couch watching historical accounts on a few Roman emperors on NETFLIX. Anyone that doesn’t believe that the knowledge of our worlds history is beneficial is truly ignorant. I will always believe that we must learn from the past to make for a better tomorrow. Sadly, thats not the way it goes. I took many tours in Greece and enjoyed all things there, including their various coinage, as well. Sadly, i have nothing to show for it. The same goes for when i visited Italy, and Israel. all that said, i enjoyed viewing the coins and wonder just who owned them when original and what their life was like. Again, thanks for sharing, nothing beats getting a good education, even at my age.
     
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  9. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    We study the past to understand the present to prepare for the future.
     
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  10. Steelers72

    Steelers72 Well-Known Member

    Definitely seemed to be a tyrant in the end. Maybe ahead of his time but his upbringing didn’t seem very nurturing. The stories of him participating in the Olympics and winning every competition , even one where he fell off the chariot and quit, really shows the power he had in that time period.

    Looks like a menace in this example:
    01BE488F-D2E6-456B-BF7E-30EEBC1ED791.jpeg
    Nero (AD 54-68). AR denarius (3.42 gm). RSC 119. Nero facing right Caesar Augustus. Reverse Jupiter seated left
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  11. EWC3

    EWC3 (mood: stubborn)

    A perennial aspiration :(
     
  12. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

     
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