Featured 1925 Noted Numismatist thoughts on the Stone Mountain Half Dollar

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by leeg, Apr 24, 2020.

  1. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    I'm a student of history, and most especially, military history. The coin represents a period in our (US) history when we were a divided nation. I've always been of the opinion that if Jackson were not killed at Chancellorsville (by one of his own picketts) the outcome of the Civil War might well have been different.
     
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  3. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    You're entitled to your opinion.
     
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  4. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    The Union was of that opinion too, even after that battle, but before they learned of Jackson's death:

    - As per one Union officer: "They have beaten us fairly; beaten us all to pieces; beaten us so easily."
    - "My God, it is horrible--horrible! And to think of it--130,000 magnificent soldiers so cut to pieces by less than 60,000 half-starved ragamuffins!" (New York Tribune)
    - "Lost--lost. All is lost!" (Senator Charles Sumner, R-MA)
    - "My God! My God! What will the country say?" (Lincoln)

    For those not in the know, General Hooker had 134,000 Union men, while Lee had less than 60,000 at Chancellorsville; the former overestimated his abilities (perhaps taking after McClellan): "My plans are perfect, and when I start to carry them out, may God have mercy on General Lee, for I shall have none."

    This was one of those classic, "won the battle, lost the war" sort of pyrrhic victories for the South. After Jackson's death, Lee could never quite find as competent a right-hand man, whether it was because of spreading themselves too thin (Vicksburg), or hesitation to follow orders (Gettysburg).

    Long gone was the swagger of Jackson at First Manassas (1861): "Give me ten thousand men and I will take Washington tomorrow."
     
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  5. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    ahahaha.
     
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  6. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    I love it as well and find military history very fascinating especially the Civil War with how miss taught it generally is. People seem to always forget that Maryland was a slave state fighting for the Union and allowed to remain one after the war for a period, that Sherman would be spending life in Fort Leavenworth after being court-martialed if he was a general today etc. While tragic it is a fascinating war that completely reshaped the country not only by keeping it together but also redefining the federal vs states rights and the role of the central federal government.

    For those that do choose to morally judge past periods of history they should be aware that 150 years from now that society will be judging us in the exact same way. Every generation always feels they are morally superior to the past forgetting that one day they will be the past and future generations will be judging them poorly as well
     
  7. leeg

    leeg I Enjoy Toned Coins

    One I used to own:

    Stone Mtn Image.png
     
  8. serafino

    serafino Well-Known Member

    We are still a divided nation and the South lost the Civil War by being strangled to death. The Blockade of Southern ports and the numeric superiority of the North was too much for them. No Confederate general or group of generals could have changed that outcome.
     
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  9. serafino

    serafino Well-Known Member

    I don't have this Stone Mountain Half Dollar, but all this controversy makes me want to get one. I'll be checking eBay ;)
     
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  10. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Not necessarily though the deck is always stacked against succession but the Revolutionary war is just one of many examples that it is possible. The South didn't get stomped right off the bat or anything and many nations would have been happy to have seen the USA weaken and split in two if they felt the South was close to victory, whether or not that would have lead to wide spread support we will never know.

    Strategically there was a path to victory for them, their margin of error was just much less than the Norths and they exceeded their limit and lost. Given the resource/population differences you could do a whole PHD on the offensive strategy the South employed early and the role that played in the outcome.

    Being strangled to death was just one part of it, Sherman burning everything in his path was another (we would call that a war crime today and court-martial anyone doing it), the north was also counterfeiting Confederate money and so on. The north had a lot of advantages and used them fighting the war on many fronts which was smart. The blockades starving them off were really the nail in the coffin for it, but there were a number of points in the war early on where you could say if this had gone differently or they used a different strategy we may have seen a different outcome
     
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  11. orifdoc

    orifdoc Well-Known Member

    I love the commentary from those collectors of long ago. Insightful and interesting.

    I suppose I have mixed feelings about the coin. In general, we humans have a nasty habit of judging historical figures by the standards of today. Much of what you and I do today with righteous certainty will seem unethical and flat wrong at some future date.

    I also sympathize greatly for the average soldier in armed conflict. History is written by the victors, but most combatants are just ordinary folks trying to stay alive, win for their side, and return home to mama. I don't think it's so shameful to celebrate the valor of any soldier, irrespective of the outcome of the battle.

    We hold Washington, Franklin, Hamilton, Adams, and Jefferson (and many, many others) in high esteem, but all of them would be considered traitors today if the outcome of the war had been different.

    As for the coin, I think the design is generally solid, but somewhat poorly executed. The relief isn't very nice, especially where the eagle just sort of fades into the background. When I first got into collecting, I thought all commems were a bit too gimmicky for me, but they've grown on me (some of them), and I've now focused quite a bit of energy on them.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Larry E

    Larry E Well-Known Member

  13. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    It's kind of like when Admiral Yamamoto tried to take out the US Pacific Fleet. He knew he had to do it fast and quick and hopefully make the Americans 'sue' for peace. I believe that had Jackson lived, the South may have carried the day at Gettysburg. That victory alone would have sent fear up the spines of the Unions' major officials. The city of Washington would be quivering in fear........
     
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  14. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    And fortunately he made many mistakes as did Hitler and one of the biggest ones was underestimating the power of this country.
     
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  15. John Skelton

    John Skelton Morgan man!

    A couple of points.

    First, history is written by both sides. No one group has control over the history of their side, but each side is given a chance to explain themselves. And then it comes down to personal biases. And wouldn't you rather read the stories of the winning side? As for the winning side of the Civil War, how many leaders now portrayed on our coins were slave holders? So what's the diff?
     
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  16. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    That's true to some extent though it already really depends on what part of history you are talking about. There's not one answer to who writes history other than the winners overwhelming influence it. For example in democratic open societies you get more of both sides while in Communist nations it generally takes outside research and a while to really get the other side if it ever really comes out.

    It's not as much of an issue in more modern times where real time information constantly comes out, but given enough time passing in the future it could be. If WW2 had gone the other way the depiction of it would be very very different to the point where after enough generations those who knew both sides would fade. Same way with the Revolutionary War, if that had failed the founding fathers would be looked at with disdain the same way the southerners in the Civil War are
     
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  17. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    You've uncovered our plot to want to depict as many slaveholders on coinage as possible. Drat! And to think, we almost got away with it.
     
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  18. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    To be fair I think he was being sarcastic with that comment
     
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  19. Macromius

    Macromius Well-Known Member

    Robert E. Lee is ok by me, but Stonewall Jackson!? Not so much...
     
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  20. John Skelton

    John Skelton Morgan man!

    I was. Given the fuss being made over the Stone Mountain coin, I thought it appropriate.

    And as part of a vacation in Atlanta, my new wife and I visited Stone Mountain and found it impressive. But we didn't go to the mountain to worship. :cool:
     
  21. serafino

    serafino Well-Known Member

    I think it was Yamamoto who said......."All we have done is awaken a sleeping tiger" and boy was he right. This country was outraged by Pearl Harbor and responded with a brutal vengeance. The Japanese learned the hard way what happens when our country mobilizes in unity vs a vicious enemy.
     
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