Featured The (Counterfeit) Elephant in the Room

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Jack D. Young, Mar 28, 2020.

  1. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    Working on a research article on a “rediscovered” counterfeit early copper, the (1694) Elephant Token; this “preview” will present some of the images and thoughts on these for discussion in this forum.

    I had the opportunity at the end of the EAC 2019 Convention in Dayton, Ohio (which I chaired with my better half) to discuss some initial research of a friend and EAC Dealer on several examples of this token, attributed as “Hodder 2-B” (both thin and thick planchets), the most common variety of the type. My friend showed me his TPG certified example and the issues with it; I agreed to keep it under wraps until we could both conduct additional research. The following example is his “discovery” piece and now in my collection:

    #1.jpg
    Writer's TPG certified example (cert now inactive)

    As a point of reference I include this image describing the dies and die combinations known for the series according to Michael Hodder:

    #2-1.jpg
    #2-2.jpg
    A few months passed and my friend notified me he was going to make a post in one of my Face Book Groups discussing what he had uncovered to date on these and I joined in the discussion. Images were posted of several matching examples, all in TPG holders and sold in several different auction venues!

    In the resulting discussion another friend and group member posted his TPG certified and CAC stickered example with the note he was sure it was good, but we had to tell him it was also one of the struck fakes…

    #2-3.jpg

    Additional research with other members participating uncovered 5 different certified examples of different apparent detail grades and surface conditions, but they all matched each other in the main common attribution points while differing from known genuine examples.

    As luck (or perseverance) would have it I found another interesting example listed for sale in a current at the time Stack’s Bowers auction listed as a “struck copy”- this high grade version matched exactly the other counterfeits and was in the highest “state of preservation” we had seen to date. I was actually the underbidder in the auction as the bids hit $900.00 and exceeded my threshold of pain! Reference comparison images as follows(SB copy on the left, one of the "new counterfeits center, known genuine example right):

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    I posted this example and comparison images as a continuing discussion in my group and another friend stated it reminded him of an article in the Numismatist written by Eric Newman back in the 60’s. I immediately went to the website of the portal in his name (Newman Numismatic Portal) and started my search. The results were quick and the article available there and entitled “AN ELEPHANT TOKEN NEVER FORGETS - FORGERY“; images as follows:

    #5.jpg

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    What an amazing find! In the research of all of the current deceptive struck counterfeits I have been involved in (over 25 different denominations/ varieties to date) a main focus is always to find the source coin. What is different about this “variety” is that the source example doesn’t appear to be a genuine coin but instead a struck copy (and not necessarily the latest Stack’s example) attributed back to 1965!

    And giving Newman his due, he had also called out some deceptive Colonial counterfeits in the late 70’s, again in the Numismatist. One of those showed up in a TPG holder and later matched to Newman’s images and proven counterfeit in-hand (I wrote a Coin Week article on that one summarizing that research at https://coinweek.com/counterfeits/struck-counterfeit-coin-week-1723-silver-dg-rex-hibernia/).

    Shortly after the Stack’s auction I ran across another example for sale in a small local auction venue. This one matched the attribution points of the others and was holdered in an old PCI slab. Internet searches show this one sold 6 times in a period from 2013 through 2019, apparently not finding a happy home. Notifying the auction house of the status of this one they agreed to pull the listing and stated they would forward my contact information to the consignor but I never heard anything from that- just waiting to see it show up in another venue.

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    The TPG (except the defunct PCI) and the auction houses were all made aware of these counterfeits with certs being deactivated or removed including CAC, so it was quite surprising to receive a note from my friend and colleague to look up a recent certed elephant token and see the Stack’s “struck copy” TPG certified as one of the finest known of the variety!

    #9.jpg
    Stack's Bowers example top, TPG certified example bottom



    Again the TPG was notified and the cert removed but the “coin” is still out there in the slab as far as I know, just waiting to make its next appearance…

    Best, Jack.
     
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  3. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    Great information for the collector with deep pockets who collects the series as I've seen some of the prices for those Elephant Tokens! :D
     
    Jack D. Young likes this.
  4. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Fantastic story about a very rare token!
     
    CircCam and Jack D. Young like this.
  5. ewomack

    ewomack 魚の下着

    Yet another in a series of fascinating yet horrifying counterfeit stories. When even the experts get fooled, it's really hard to know what to do. Thank you for sharing another one of these stories. They keep me extremely cautious about anything high-end, even when slabbed.
     
    Jack D. Young likes this.
  6. gronnh20

    gronnh20 Well-Known Member

    Is this the only die pair of this token you have researched? How cold the TPGs certify so many counterfeit coins? Were their known example(s) counterfeit also?
     
  7. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    I have actually researched and reviewed images of all of the listed Hodder varieties but spent the majority of my time researching examples with Reverse "B" as it is the only one close to the subject counterfeits.

    I can only speculate on how these slip past the TPG's, but like many of the others unless you spend the time comparing the submitted example to images of known genuine ones mistakes can happen, even through CAC...
     
    kaparthy likes this.
  8. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    I see. Modern counterfeits. NVM.
    I thought at first contemporary and it didn't make sense.
     
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  9. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    No way of knowing how they were made or how many. I find it interesting they seem to have hit the TPG's recently compared to when they were originally "discovered".
    I have seen certified ones range from $700 to $2500 with the "high grade" counterfeit shown a value of $22.5K!

    cert-masked.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2020
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  10. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    This is never been a coin of great interest to me. Given what I've read here, I'm glad I've stayed away from it.

    Sorry, but the OP counterfeit looks like something that was made in China fairly recently.
     
  11. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    No problem @johnmilton; mine was straight graded VF-25; the other certed examples as follows:

    fake-1.jpg
    fake-2.jpg
    fake-3.jpg
    fake-4.jpg
    fake-5.jpg
     
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  12. l.cutler

    l.cutler Member

    Thanks for this write up. I dug mine out of storage to check it out, looks like mine is genuine. Thanks again!
     
    Jack D. Young likes this.
  13. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    Very interesting. I always liked these. Interesting to see the counterfeits and that many are not recent either
     
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  14. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    Glad to know yours is good! I felt terrible telling a friend his was bad...
     
    l.cutler likes this.
  15. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

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  16. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

  17. l.cutler

    l.cutler Member

  18. BRandM

    BRandM Counterstamp Collector

    Interesting information about the Elephant Tokens. Many thanks for discussing it here.

    I had a certified (PCGS I think) example years ago when I collected colonials, but sold my collection about 10 years ago. It makes me wonder now if mine was genuine.

    Bruce
     
  19. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

  20. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    A friend "discovered" another example- this one from March 2004 and the "Dr. Basil Nicholson Collection" offered through Colin Cook Coins, South Manchester.

    008_chasiielephantbmc504thinflan.jpg
    listing.jpg Clipboard01.jpg
     
  21. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    And the final chapter:D...

    The TPG became involved in the certified example through their guarantee and used my Coin Week article as evidence the coin is not genuine. The "coin" was removed from the holder and returned to the original owner, who then offered it to me to add to my odd collection.

    My Christmas present!

    38985733_184712362_2200.jpg
     
    NSP, MIGuy and l.cutler like this.
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