Featured Animals on Philip I coins, including SAECVLARES AVGG coins

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by DonnaML, Feb 18, 2020.

  1. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

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  3. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I agree that it's one of the Gallienus zoo coins. It doesn't look like Philip to me.
     
  4. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    That is indeed a Gallienus zoo coin. You may read about this series here (English) and here (French).

    The reverse reads DIANAE CONS AVG, Dianae Conservatrix Augusti, which means "to Diana, protector of the Augustus." Diana, the Roman equivalent of Artemis, was associated with all manner of creatures in the artiodactyl (cloven hooves) order, such as gazelles, deer, elk, and so on. Coins of the zoo series with this reverse legend may feature the animal facing left or right. Here are a few in my collection that have this reverse legend, though I don't have your particular type (Antelope/gazelle right, Göbl 717b).

    [​IMG]
    Gallienus, 253-268 AD.
    Roman Æ Antoninianus, 2.26 g, 16.4 mm, 5 h.
    Rome Mint 267-268 AD.
    Obv: GALLIENVS AVG, radiate head right.
    Rev: DIANAE CONS AVG, gazelle walking left, XII in exergue.
    Refs: RIC 181; Cohen 165; RCV 10200; Göbl 750b.


    [​IMG]
    Gallienus, AD 253-268.
    Roman billon Antoninianus, 3.53 g, 20.1 mm, 1 h.
    Rome, AD 267-268.
    Obv: GALLIENVS AVG, radiate head, right.
    Rev: DIANAE CONS AVG, stag walking right; X I in exergue.
    Refs: RIC 179K; Göbl 745b; Cohen 157; RCV 10201.

    [​IMG]Gallienus, AD 253-268.
    Roman billon antoninianus, 4.63 g, 21.4 mm, 7 h.
    Rome, officina 5, AD 267-268.
    Obv: IMP GALLIENVS AVG, radiate head right.
    Rev: DIANAE CONS AVG, doe standing right, head turned left over shoulder. Є in exergue.
    Refs: RIC 176K; Göbl 728z; Cohen 155; RCV 10199; La Venera 87e.
     
  5. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    As much as I tend to think the animal on No. III looks more like a goat on most of the examples I've seen, Sear argues in Roman Coin Values Vol. III that a common goat would never have been considered sufficiently exotic to be featured in the anniversary games, let alone singled out for an appearance on the coinage. Whereas the Northern European elk, from Scandinavia [= the North American moose rather than what's known in North America as an elk] would have been perfectly suitable. Perhaps it looks more like a goat on the coins because most of the die-cutters had never actually seen an elk/moose in person, and didn't really know what it looked like.
     
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  6. Marsman

    Marsman Well-Known Member

    Nice coins !

    My hippopotamus and lion :)


    D44B4295-8A51-4D80-BAA4-BEDDBC165CB4.png EE61DB0B-89FC-4DC8-B689-036F39252811.jpeg
     
  7. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    After seeing all the great examples in this thread of the Otacilia Severa hippo reverse, my Gollum-like acquisitiveness took over -- my precious! -- and I felt an irresistible compulsion to try to buy one of my own. So I purchased this example. Obviously I don't have it in hand yet, and it certainly isn't as nice as @dougsmit 's, but I think it's still an acceptable example of the type: Otacilia Severa (wife of Philip I) AR antoninianus AD 248, Rome mint, 4th Officina. Obv. Draped bust of Otacilia Severa right, wearing stephane, crescent behind shoulders, OTACIL SEVERA AVG/ Rev. Hippopotamus right, SAECVLARES AVGG, IIII in exergue. RIC IV-3 116(b), RSC IV 63, Sear RCV III 9160. 23 mm., 4.52 g. (Games commemorating 1,000th anniversary of founding of Rome.)

    After the photos (which are, of course, the seller's images), I have a question:

    Obverse image only, Otacilia Severa antoninianus hippo reverse - jpg version.jpg
    Reverse image only, Otacilia Severa antoninianus hippo reverse - jpg version.jpg

    Here's my question. From looking at these photos, can anyone make an educated guess as to whether the black areas represent dirt, or toning, or the wearing away of silver on the surface to reveal base metal underneath? Same question about what look like yellowish/brown areas on both sides. And if it's just dirt, or even toning, does anyone have any recommendations on how to go about cleaning it in a way that won't harm the coin? (Cleaning ancient coins is not something I've really tried before except when there was very obvious dirt on the surface.) Many thanks.
     
  8. JulesUK

    JulesUK Well-Known Member

    I haven't got a Philip I but I do have a beaten up Gallienus with a panther/leopard (Fascinating read @Roman Collector)

    24-Gallienus Panther combo.jpg
     
  9. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    Lovely coins!

    For the moment, I only have the Philip I wolf/twins sestertius
    Philip I sestertius saecvlares wolf.jpg

    I had this curious Otacilia Severa Hippo which I sold a few months ago - listed only as a sestertius, but this one was As weight - seemingly struck with the correct dies on the wrong flan...
    ZomboDroid 21082019164336.jpg
     
  10. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    LOL, no, that is NOT a Hippo.

    That is the Antarctic BIG-MOUTHED PANDA BEAR that the Romans found when their ship went off course rounding the Straights of Magellan.

    Yeah, True story. :)

    My HIPPO: :D :D :D
    Sicily Syracuse ca 410 BC AE 19 Athena Wreath Hippocamp.jpg
    Sicily Syracuse ca 410 BCE AE 19 Athena Wreath Hippocamp
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
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  11. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    In my very uneducated opinion, the darker areas are surface toning/crud. That is a lovely coin - I would not attempt to clean it. But I'm a fan of ancient coin colors - good, bad and ugly.

    To illustrate, here are three Philip I ADVENTVS type antoninanus (I keep accidently accumulating them). They could all probably be made more shiny, but I would not want to do that.

    It's not that I never clean coins, but it is a very rare occurrence. And I have had several regrets - and some that worked out okay.

    Philip I - ADVENTVS all 3 Aug 19 (0).jpg

    Here is a Hadrian sestertius I performed a mild cleaning on. Before anybody scolds me - it was already stripped when I got it - down to the brassy base metal :(. But there was a dark splotch directly on Hadrian's mouth/nose area. Very gently I rubbed at this area and lightened it and the coin looked much better.

    Given the stripped condition of the coin when I got it, I figured the risk was minimal. You can still see the darker area around the mouth, but it is more in line with the rest of the coin and not so distracting - no regrets on this one! Had the original patina/surfaces been intact, I wouldn't've messed with it.

    Hadrian - Sest. FORTVNA Dec 2019 (0a).jpg
     
  12. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Thank you. Probably the most I might do is see what happens if I apply something to a very tiny area by the rim, before I proceed any further.
     
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  13. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    I think it's toning and it looks lovely, highlighting the devices in a cameo sort of way. I'd leave it be.
     
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  14. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    I thought I 'd add something depicting the collection of the animals, in this case a rhino...this mosaic comes from a villa on Sicily which may have belonged to Maximian Herculis.

    [​IMG]

    Additional registers depict the collection of lions, leopards, antelope, stags. Here's another....circa 300 A.D.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    My new SAECVLARES AVGG coin: the Philip II ant with a Northern European elk [= American moose] on the reverse. (I don't care how much it looks like a goat; Sear has convinced me, in the passage I mentioned above, that it would have made no sense whatsoever to put a goat on one of the coins issued for this occasion.)

    Philip II, Caesar AR Antoninianus, 248 AD, Rome Mint, 3rd Officina. Obv. Radiate, draped & cuirassed bust right, IMP PHILIPVS AVG/ Rev. European elk [moose] standing left, SAECVLARES AVGG, III in exergue. RIC IV-3 224, RSC IV 72, Sear RCV III 9273. 22 mm., 4.33 g., 12 h. (Games commemorating 1,000th anniversary of founding of Rome.)

    Philip II elk - jpg version.jpg

    I think the animal's body and head shape actually look more like a moose's than a goat's. This example for sale by Marc Breitsprecher was even more obviously intended to be a European elk/American moose, not a goat: https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/ma...r_antoninianus__goat_left/894886/Default.aspx. (I was tempted to buy it, but it was a little too expensive for me.)

    And here's my one Gallienus coin with an animal reverse, which I haven't posted before, but will post here instead of starting yet another new zoo thread:

    Gallienus, Billon Antoninianus, Rome Mint 267-268 AD. Obv. Radiate head right, GALLIENVS AVG /Rev. Panther walking left, LIBERO P CONS AVG; B or D in exergue. RIC V-1 230, RSC IV 586, Sear RCV III 10281. 19mm, 2.83g, 6h.

    Gallienus - Panther - jpg version.jpg

    Wildwinds lists this coin as two separate types under the same RIC, RSC, and RCV catalog numbers -- one with a panther and one with a tigress -- but from the examples I've seen, I believe they're all the same type. I think most of them are simply too worn to see any stripes that might be there.
     
  16. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ...uh...that ain't 'baaaaaddd!'....><:p
     
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  17. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    One more for my Philip I & family zoo:

    Philip I AR Antoninianus, 248 AD, Rome Mint, 6th Officina. Obv. Radiate, draped, & cuirassed bust right, IMP PHILIPPVS AVG / Rev. Antelope standing left, SAECVLARES AVGG, VI in exergue. RIC IV-3 21, RSC IV 189, Sear RCV III 8959. 22 mm., 3.54 g. (Games commemorating 1,000th anniversary of founding of Rome.)

    Philip I - SAECVLARES AVGG -VI -Antelope - jpg version.jpg

    And here are all the ones I have together, in the bottom row of the tray in which I keep them -- in order, elephant, lion, stag, antelope, hippo, and European elk [moose]:

    Philip zoo in tray 4.jpg
     
  18. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    The last coin I needed to complete my set of antonianiani of Philip I & family with animal reverses, issued in connection with the games held on the occasion of the 1,000th anniversary of the founding or Rome, arrived in the mail today. (I already posted this photo in another thread, but it belongs here too!)

    Philip I AR Antoninianus, 248 AD, Rome Mint, 2nd Officina. Obv. Radiate, draped, & cuirassed bust right, IMP PHILIPPVS AVG/ Rev. She-wolf standing left, suckling twins Romulus and Remus, SAECVLARES AVGG; II in exergue. RIC IV-3 15, RSC IV 178, Sear RCV III 8957 (ill.). 22.75 mm., 4.72 g. (Games commemorating 1,000th anniversary of founding of Rome.)

    Philip I - Wolf jpg version.jpg

    And here's a photo showing all those animal reverses together (in order from Officinas I through VI, without regard to whether the coins were issued under the name of Philip I, Otacilia Severa, or Philip II), together with the Philip I coin with an elephant on the reverse, as well as three other coins to show an obverse portrait for each of them.

    Philip I & family coins with animal reverses 2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
  19. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Very impressive & attractive group, Donna. And congratulations on finishing the set.

    But you seem to be missing the very rare two-thirds antoninianus issued in this series. It is in very few collections :shame:

    Philip I Elephant Ant (1).JPG
     
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  20. dadams

    dadams Well-Known Member

    Great accomplishment @DonnaML - Don't know how I missed this first time around but thanks for posting your additions as I enjoyed seeing your selections to fill the set.

    I've only the one SAECVLARES of Otacilia Severa and would like to complete this small set as well. I agree with your earlier statement that many of them are pretty bad off and I've yet to find another addition with the look and price I like.

    tn_Otacilia-Severa__Hippo.JPG
     
  21. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Donna's luck must've rubbed off on me - I just got my first intact Philip I "animal" antoninianus - the wolf and twins. These don't come along in my budget range very often, so I am pretty danged excited.

    My Philip Antoninianus Zoo Collection now stands at 1 and 2/3rds.

    Philip I - Ant. Wolf & Twins Apr 2020 (0).jpg
    Philip I Antoninianus
    (248 A.D.)
    Rome (2nd Offina)

    IMP PHILIPPVS AVG, radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right / SAECVLARES AVGG, she-wolf standing left, head turned back, suckling Romulus and Remus, II in exergue.
    RIC 15; RSC 178; Sear 8957.
    (3.73 grams / 23 x 19 mm)

    Also, I do have a couple of mangy bronzes:

    Philip I

    Philip I Sest Antelope Jun 2018 (0).jpg

    Philip II

    Phillip II - Sest. Elk Walking Sep 2019 (0).jpg
     
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